Why the beatdown for Bama Basketball

[BAMAWV]

These are college age players, not 10 year olds. You cannot yell at a guy to, "...get in there and start making some shots," and expect results. You cannot "teach a guy to shoot" over the summer. You cannot make a guy shoot from 6am to 10pm every day, all summer, to make a pure shooter out of a mediocre shooter. 

To see marked improvement, you need to work within the confines of what the player has always done. Let's use Lacey as an example. A good Coach can go back and look at film of his shooting when, for instance, he has had 20 pt. nights in H.S. Then compare that shot, the mechanics, with the mechanics of his shooting 2 -14 against an SEC opponent. Find what differences there are and then practice to try and rectify the bad mechanics-- elbow out, all arm -no wrist, fingertip control or palm, etc. Much the same as a Golf Coach analyzing a swing for a pro player.

Once you have identified areas of concern and the player has practiced to rectify it, then that has to be taken to a game and practiced against a "D". The guy with a broom will work some, but you need to have the player running the court against real competition to get his old shot back. This may be helpful for Lacey (if the NCAA doesn't find out) but it wouldn't work for a player that has never had skills to build off.

But if you are one of the guys on here that thinks all you need to do to get more offense is to hold a team meeting, quit it! 

I have also noticed (on TV) Jacobs playing, lets say, UNINSPIRED. I have been wondering for at least the 2nd half of the season if the things CAG sees in practice have more to do with his playing time, than does the obvious (Gueye sux). If CAG is seeing a big drop-off in his performance after maybe, 22 minutes (they clock these things), especially in the 2nd half of our season when he has had time to recover and get back in basketball shape, muaybe he feels he has no choice but to play 9'GB. But in contrast, Gueye expends a whole bunch of energy (same with Engstrom), wasted with his "chicken with his head cut off" style of play. To the gym class/church ball guys it looks like Gueye is really in there moving, when what he is actually doing is dragging his big body and his defenders big body, in the way of our scorers trying to get to the hoop. I've seen Releford talking to him (on TV) after a scoring drive and I promise that is what he is telling 9'GB-- "Get out of the way!"

[Jamos]

These are college age players, not 10 year olds. You cannot yell at a guy to, "...get in there and start making some shots," and expect results. You cannot "teach a guy to shoot" over the summer. You cannot make a guy shoot from 6am to 10pm every day, all summer, to make a pure shooter out of a mediocre shooter. 

To see marked improvement, you need to work within the confines of what the player has always done. Let's use Lacey as an example. A good Coach can go back and look at film of his shooting when, for instance, he has had 20 pt. nights in H.S. Then compare that shot, the mechanics, with the mechanics of his shooting 2 -14 against an SEC opponent. Find what differences there are and then practice to try and rectify the bad mechanics-- elbow out, all arm -no wrist, fingertip control or palm, etc. Much the same as a Golf Coach analyzing a swing for a pro player.

Once you have identified areas of concern and the player has practiced to rectify it, then that has to be taken to a game and practiced against a "D". The guy with a broom will work some, but you need to have the player running the court against real competition to get his old shot back. This may be helpful for Lacey (if the NCAA doesn't find out) but it wouldn't work for a player that has never had skills to build off.

But if you are one of the guys on here that thinks all you need to do to get more offense is to hold a team meeting, quit it! 

I have also noticed (on TV) Jacobs playing, lets say, UNINSPIRED. I have been wondering for at least the 2nd half of the season if the things CAG sees in practice have more to do with his playing time, than does the obvious (Gueye sux). If CAG is seeing a big drop-off in his performance after maybe, 22 minutes (they clock these things), especially in the 2nd half of our season when he has had time to recover and get back in basketball shape, muaybe he feels he has no choice but to play 9'GB. But in contrast, Gueye expends a whole bunch of energy (same with Engstrom), wasted with his "chicken with his head cut off" style of play. To the gym class/church ball guys it looks like Gueye is really in there moving, when what he is actually doing is dragging his big body and his defenders big body, in the way of our scorers trying to get to the hoop. I've seen Releford talking to him (on TV) after a scoring drive and I promise that is what he is telling 9'GB-- "Get out of the way!"

I can't argue with what you are saying. Personal time in the gym is what separates good players and average players.

[BAMAWV]

These are college age players, not 10 year olds. You cannot yell at a guy to, "...get in there and start making some shots," and expect results. You cannot "teach a guy to shoot" over the summer. You cannot make a guy shoot from 6am to 10pm every day, all summer, to make a pure shooter out of a mediocre shooter. 

To see marked improvement, you need to work within the confines of what the player has always done. Let's use Lacey as an example. A good Coach can go back and look at film of his shooting when, for instance, he has had 20 pt. nights in H.S. Then compare that shot, the mechanics, with the mechanics of his shooting 2 -14 against an SEC opponent. Find what differences there are and then practice to try and rectify the bad mechanics-- elbow out, all arm -no wrist, fingertip control or palm, etc. Much the same as a Golf Coach analyzing a swing for a pro player.

Once you have identified areas of concern and the player has practiced to rectify it, then that has to be taken to a game and practiced against a "D". The guy with a broom will work some, but you need to have the player running the court against real competition to get his old shot back. This may be helpful for Lacey (if the NCAA doesn't find out) but it wouldn't work for a player that has never had skills to build off.

But if you are one of the guys on here that thinks all you need to do to get more offense is to hold a team meeting, quit it! 

I have also noticed (on TV) Jacobs playing, lets say, UNINSPIRED. I have been wondering for at least the 2nd half of the season if the things CAG sees in practice have more to do with his playing time, than does the obvious (Gueye sux). If CAG is seeing a big drop-off in his performance after maybe, 22 minutes (they clock these things), especially in the 2nd half of our season when he has had time to recover and get back in basketball shape, muaybe he feels he has no choice but to play 9'GB. But in contrast, Gueye expends a whole bunch of energy (same with Engstrom), wasted with his "chicken with his head cut off" style of play. To the gym class/church ball guys it looks like Gueye is really in there moving, when what he is actually doing is dragging his big body and his defenders big body, in the way of our scorers trying to get to the hoop. I've seen Releford talking to him (on TV) after a scoring drive and I promise that is what he is telling 9'GB-- "Get out of the way!"

I can't argue with what you are saying. Personal time in the gym is what separates good players and average players.

You could spend the hours with a buddy using a broom on defense to help practice, or simulate game conditions, or you could actually have real competition. The latter may violate NCAA regulations if organized by an asst. coach, etc. But just spending hours alone in the gym will not guarantee the desired results.
What I'm saying-- and this is up your alley Jamos, is that NCAA regs on practicing offseason come into play-- just like they do in football. 

[Marshal Dillon]

These are college age players, not 10 year olds. You cannot yell at a guy to, "...get in there and start making some shots," and expect results. You cannot "teach a guy to shoot" over the summer. You cannot make a guy shoot from 6am to 10pm every day, all summer, to make a pure shooter out of a mediocre shooter. 

To see marked improvement, you need to work within the confines of what the player has always done. Let's use Lacey as an example. A good Coach can go back and look at film of his shooting when, for instance, he has had 20 pt. nights in H.S. Then compare that shot, the mechanics, with the mechanics of his shooting 2 -14 against an SEC opponent. Find what differences there are and then practice to try and rectify the bad mechanics-- elbow out, all arm -no wrist, fingertip control or palm, etc. Much the same as a Golf Coach analyzing a swing for a pro player.

Once you have identified areas of concern and the player has practiced to rectify it, then that has to be taken to a game and practiced against a "D". The guy with a broom will work some, but you need to have the player running the court against real competition to get his old shot back. This may be helpful for Lacey (if the NCAA doesn't find out) but it wouldn't work for a player that has never had skills to build off.

But if you are one of the guys on here that thinks all you need to do to get more offense is to hold a team meeting, quit it! 

I have also noticed (on TV) Jacobs playing, lets say, UNINSPIRED. I have been wondering for at least the 2nd half of the season if the things CAG sees in practice have more to do with his playing time, than does the obvious (Gueye sux). If CAG is seeing a big drop-off in his performance after maybe, 22 minutes (they clock these things), especially in the 2nd half of our season when he has had time to recover and get back in basketball shape, muaybe he feels he has no choice but to play 9'GB. But in contrast, Gueye expends a whole bunch of energy (same with Engstrom), wasted with his "chicken with his head cut off" style of play. To the gym class/church ball guys it looks like Gueye is really in there moving, when what he is actually doing is dragging his big body and his defenders big body, in the way of our scorers trying to get to the hoop. I've seen Releford talking to him (on TV) after a scoring drive and I promise that is what he is telling 9'GB-- "Get out of the way!"

I can't argue with what you are saying. Personal time in the gym is what separates good players and average players.

You could spend the hours with a buddy using a broom on defense to help practice, or simulate game conditions, or you could actually have real competition. The latter may violate NCAA regulations if organized by an asst. coach, etc. But just spending hours alone in the gym will not guarantee the desired results.
What I'm saying-- and this is up your alley Jamos, is that NCAA regs on practicing offseason come into play-- just like they do in football. 

I have to disagree with your assertion that working out alone in the gym makes no impact.
I have read numerous stories about NBA players shooting 500 FT's a day in a gym in the off-season. Also, they will practice their outside shooting and just working on their game like learning to use their "weak" had to do layups, making it harder to guard just their strong hand in a game. It's about self-discipline and desire, I think Releford definitely worked on his game in the last off-season.

 

[ricky023]

I went through the NCAA rules online and I could not find anything on rules about personal or summer workouts. If anybody else can find it you have my best. RTR!

[Marshal Dillon]

I went through the NCAA rules online and I could not find anything on rules about personal or summer workouts. If anybody else can find it you have my best. RTR!

You can work all you want on your personal time (no coaches). That's why hitting the gym and practicing FT's, outside shots, dribbling, and your endurance & strength are so important in the off season.


 

[BAMAWV]

These are college age players, not 10 year olds. You cannot yell at a guy to, "...get in there and start making some shots," and expect results. You cannot "teach a guy to shoot" over the summer. You cannot make a guy shoot from 6am to 10pm every day, all summer, to make a pure shooter out of a mediocre shooter. 

To see marked improvement, you need to work within the confines of what the player has always done. Let's use Lacey as an example. A good Coach can go back and look at film of his shooting when, for instance, he has had 20 pt. nights in H.S. Then compare that shot, the mechanics, with the mechanics of his shooting 2 -14 against an SEC opponent. Find what differences there are and then practice to try and rectify the bad mechanics-- elbow out, all arm -no wrist, fingertip control or palm, etc. Much the same as a Golf Coach analyzing a swing for a pro player.

Once you have identified areas of concern and the player has practiced to rectify it, then that has to be taken to a game and practiced against a "D". The guy with a broom will work some, but you need to have the player running the court against real competition to get his old shot back. This may be helpful for Lacey (if the NCAA doesn't find out) but it wouldn't work for a player that has never had skills to build off.

But if you are one of the guys on here that thinks all you need to do to get more offense is to hold a team meeting, quit it! 

I have also noticed (on TV) Jacobs playing, lets say, UNINSPIRED. I have been wondering for at least the 2nd half of the season if the things CAG sees in practice have more to do with his playing time, than does the obvious (Gueye sux). If CAG is seeing a big drop-off in his performance after maybe, 22 minutes (they clock these things), especially in the 2nd half of our season when he has had time to recover and get back in basketball shape, muaybe he feels he has no choice but to play 9'GB. But in contrast, Gueye expends a whole bunch of energy (same with Engstrom), wasted with his "chicken with his head cut off" style of play. To the gym class/church ball guys it looks like Gueye is really in there moving, when what he is actually doing is dragging his big body and his defenders big body, in the way of our scorers trying to get to the hoop. I've seen Releford talking to him (on TV) after a scoring drive and I promise that is what he is telling 9'GB-- "Get out of the way!"

I can't argue with what you are saying. Personal time in the gym is what separates good players and average players.

You could spend the hours with a buddy using a broom on defense to help practice, or simulate game conditions, or you could actually have real competition. The latter may violate NCAA regulations if organized by an asst. coach, etc. But just spending hours alone in the gym will not guarantee the desired results.
What I'm saying-- and this is up your alley Jamos, is that NCAA regs on practicing offseason come into play-- just like they do in football. 

I have to disagree with your assertion that working out alone in the gym makes no impact.
I have read numerous stories about NBA players shooting 500 FT's a day in a gym in the off-season. Also, they will practice their outside shooting and just working on their game like learning to use their "weak" had to do layups, making it harder to guard just their strong hand in a game. It's about self-discipline and desire, I think Releford definitely worked on his game in the last off-season.

 

So you are guaranteeing the desired results? I don't care what you read in Boy's Life magazine, practicing by yourself (college players or NBA) will not produce the results that the process I outlined earlier will produce. Also, just as in practicing putting or hitting balls on the driving range, there are only so many minutes in a row that you can maintain the concentration levels necessary to get it right every time -- in order to establish muscle memory. Ten year olds may benefit from your method, the church ball crowd may see improvement, college and pro guys-- not so much. HTH

[Marshal Dillon]

These are college age players, not 10 year olds. You cannot yell at a guy to, "...get in there and start making some shots," and expect results. You cannot "teach a guy to shoot" over the summer. You cannot make a guy shoot from 6am to 10pm every day, all summer, to make a pure shooter out of a mediocre shooter. 

To see marked improvement, you need to work within the confines of what the player has always done. Let's use Lacey as an example. A good Coach can go back and look at film of his shooting when, for instance, he has had 20 pt. nights in H.S. Then compare that shot, the mechanics, with the mechanics of his shooting 2 -14 against an SEC opponent. Find what differences there are and then practice to try and rectify the bad mechanics-- elbow out, all arm -no wrist, fingertip control or palm, etc. Much the same as a Golf Coach analyzing a swing for a pro player.

Once you have identified areas of concern and the player has practiced to rectify it, then that has to be taken to a game and practiced against a "D". The guy with a broom will work some, but you need to have the player running the court against real competition to get his old shot back. This may be helpful for Lacey (if the NCAA doesn't find out) but it wouldn't work for a player that has never had skills to build off.

But if you are one of the guys on here that thinks all you need to do to get more offense is to hold a team meeting, quit it! 

I have also noticed (on TV) Jacobs playing, lets say, UNINSPIRED. I have been wondering for at least the 2nd half of the season if the things CAG sees in practice have more to do with his playing time, than does the obvious (Gueye sux). If CAG is seeing a big drop-off in his performance after maybe, 22 minutes (they clock these things), especially in the 2nd half of our season when he has had time to recover and get back in basketball shape, muaybe he feels he has no choice but to play 9'GB. But in contrast, Gueye expends a whole bunch of energy (same with Engstrom), wasted with his "chicken with his head cut off" style of play. To the gym class/church ball guys it looks like Gueye is really in there moving, when what he is actually doing is dragging his big body and his defenders big body, in the way of our scorers trying to get to the hoop. I've seen Releford talking to him (on TV) after a scoring drive and I promise that is what he is telling 9'GB-- "Get out of the way!"

I can't argue with what you are saying. Personal time in the gym is what separates good players and average players.

You could spend the hours with a buddy using a broom on defense to help practice, or simulate game conditions, or you could actually have real competition. The latter may violate NCAA regulations if organized by an asst. coach, etc. But just spending hours alone in the gym will not guarantee the desired results.
What I'm saying-- and this is up your alley Jamos, is that NCAA regs on practicing offseason come into play-- just like they do in football. 

I have to disagree with your assertion that working out alone in the gym makes no impact.
I have read numerous stories about NBA players shooting 500 FT's a day in a gym in the off-season. Also, they will practice their outside shooting and just working on their game like learning to use their "weak" had to do layups, making it harder to guard just their strong hand in a game. It's about self-discipline and desire, I think Releford definitely worked on his game in the last off-season.

 

So you are guaranteeing the desired results? I don't care what you read in Boy's Life magazine, practicing by yourself (college players or NBA) will not produce the results that the process I outlined earlier will produce. Also, just as in practicing putting or hitting balls on the driving range, there are only so many minutes in a row that you can maintain the concentration levels necessary to get it right every time -- in order to establish muscle memory. Ten year olds may benefit from your method, the church ball crowd may see improvement, college and pro guys-- not so much. HTH

The comments I was referring to when discussing working on FT shooting, outside shooting, weak hand layups, etc., came from hearing guys like Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, John Stockton, Kevin Durant, and many others discuss on television in interviews. They all have said they became much better players by working on these areas of their game. By the way, what's with the nasty, condescending attitude?


 

[BAMAWV]

These are college age players, not 10 year olds. You cannot yell at a guy to, "...get in there and start making some shots," and expect results. You cannot "teach a guy to shoot" over the summer. You cannot make a guy shoot from 6am to 10pm every day, all summer, to make a pure shooter out of a mediocre shooter. 

To see marked improvement, you need to work within the confines of what the player has always done. Let's use Lacey as an example. A good Coach can go back and look at film of his shooting when, for instance, he has had 20 pt. nights in H.S. Then compare that shot, the mechanics, with the mechanics of his shooting 2 -14 against an SEC opponent. Find what differences there are and then practice to try and rectify the bad mechanics-- elbow out, all arm -no wrist, fingertip control or palm, etc. Much the same as a Golf Coach analyzing a swing for a pro player.

Once you have identified areas of concern and the player has practiced to rectify it, then that has to be taken to a game and practiced against a "D". The guy with a broom will work some, but you need to have the player running the court against real competition to get his old shot back. This may be helpful for Lacey (if the NCAA doesn't find out) but it wouldn't work for a player that has never had skills to build off.

But if you are one of the guys on here that thinks all you need to do to get more offense is to hold a team meeting, quit it! 

I have also noticed (on TV) Jacobs playing, lets say, UNINSPIRED. I have been wondering for at least the 2nd half of the season if the things CAG sees in practice have more to do with his playing time, than does the obvious (Gueye sux). If CAG is seeing a big drop-off in his performance after maybe, 22 minutes (they clock these things), especially in the 2nd half of our season when he has had time to recover and get back in basketball shape, muaybe he feels he has no choice but to play 9'GB. But in contrast, Gueye expends a whole bunch of energy (same with Engstrom), wasted with his "chicken with his head cut off" style of play. To the gym class/church ball guys it looks like Gueye is really in there moving, when what he is actually doing is dragging his big body and his defenders big body, in the way of our scorers trying to get to the hoop. I've seen Releford talking to him (on TV) after a scoring drive and I promise that is what he is telling 9'GB-- "Get out of the way!"

I can't argue with what you are saying. Personal time in the gym is what separates good players and average players.

You could spend the hours with a buddy using a broom on defense to help practice, or simulate game conditions, or you could actually have real competition. The latter may violate NCAA regulations if organized by an asst. coach, etc. But just spending hours alone in the gym will not guarantee the desired results.
What I'm saying-- and this is up your alley Jamos, is that NCAA regs on practicing offseason come into play-- just like they do in football. 

I have to disagree with your assertion that working out alone in the gym makes no impact.
I have read numerous stories about NBA players shooting 500 FT's a day in a gym in the off-season. Also, they will practice their outside shooting and just working on their game like learning to use their "weak" had to do layups, making it harder to guard just their strong hand in a game. It's about self-discipline and desire, I think Releford definitely worked on his game in the last off-season.

 

So you are guaranteeing the desired results? I don't care what you read in Boy's Life magazine, practicing by yourself (college players or NBA) will not produce the results that the process I outlined earlier will produce. Also, just as in practicing putting or hitting balls on the driving range, there are only so many minutes in a row that you can maintain the concentration levels necessary to get it right every time -- in order to establish muscle memory. Ten year olds may benefit from your method, the church ball crowd may see improvement, college and pro guys-- not so much. HTH

The comments I was referring to when discussing working on FT shooting, outside shooting, weak hand layups, etc., came from hearing guys like Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, John Stockton, Kevin Durant, and many others discuss on television in interviews. They all have said they became much better players by working on these areas of their game. By the way, what's with the nasty, condescending attitude?


 

I get tired of repeating myself. I don't mind if your having trouble understanding a concept. Lord knows folks on here have been patient with me, but when it comes from commenting on a post you never fully read, it  gets disgusting discouraging. 

When NBA guys work on their shot, they are merely tweaking what has taken a lifetime to develop. They are maybe increasing their shooting % from 35% to 38%. The guys we have need to have a basic shot developed from the start. It has to be built (the mechanics) from scratch to get from 20% to 35%. Lacey is the one big exception in that he has a beautiful shot, if he is wide open and unrushed. He can shoot by himself until he is purple and all that gets improved is the wide open shot he does pretty well now. Obasohan and Pollard need work against guys that are better than them. That is what they are fighting now, the transition from H.S. where they were superstars, to college, where they are slowly getting better against guys 3 and 4 years older and more experienced. Both, of course, need to develop physically (weight and muscle) and that is something they can do on their own but only under a strength and conditioning coaches guidelines.

Gueye and Engstrom can improve (can't hurt) by practicing alone. I suggest they go back home to do it. But if they want to improve they should be playing against each other all day long, not alone in a gym.

Jacobs needs to spend his mornings in the weight room with Obasohan and Pollard and his afternoons pushing and shoving to the goal against Gueye and Engstrom. If he worked all summer, one against two, we would see some real improvement from him.

But the larger point I was making, since I am not in charge of anything, is to ask the board if there is not NCAA rules against organized practices, particularly if there are coaches involved. I am sure there are, the same as in football.

[pmull]

NCAA allows 20 hours of practice time during the season. Practice can not start until a set date in Mid-October. You may have heard of teams like Kentucky having Midnight Maddness on the first day of practice.

Players can work with S&C coaches during the offseason. They can work with trainers to rehab injuries. Players can practice together unsupervised. Some stay on campus during the summer just like football players do. Most play in some type of summer league so they can continue to work and improve their game.

Coaches love to see a kid in the gym early in the morning or staying late after practice to work on their shots.

[BAMAWV]

NCAA allows 20 hours of practice time during the season. Practice can not start until a set date in Mid-October. You may have heard of teams like Kentucky having Midnight Maddness on the first day of practice.

Players can work with S&C coaches during the offseason. They can work with trainers to rehab injuries. Players can practice together unsupervised. Some stay on campus during the summer just like football players do. Most play in some type of summer league so they can continue to work and improve their game.

Coaches love to see a kid in the gym early in the morning or staying late after practice to work on their shots.

Thanks. It hasn't changed much since I was in school. They used to keep the auxillary gym open but only the better players on campus, and the local JC guys, could play yhere. I got pulled out of there twice to play a role position (scout team) against Anthony Murray, T.R. Dunn, Reggie King,  1 white guy???, etc. They gave me a reversible sleeveless BAMA shirt that I kept until it fell to pieces in the 1980's.

There was also pretty good competition at Foster year round-- also the Methodist? Church down from Grant's (10th St.) on the opposite side of the street from Grant's and the Stadium.

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• ricky023

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