Why the beatdown for Bama Basketball

[Jamos]

I've read quite a bit about Bama basketball this week and some of the beatdown has been kind of hard to swallow. I will say that I've been kind of hard on them at times for the lack of production from their offense but maybe there are some reasons for the lack of consistency of the team this year.

We'll start from the beginning and maybe I can shed some light on why I think they didn't reach their goal this year. Personally I think it all started from last years team. Bama lost three players from that team that could have made all the difference in the world for them this year.

Mitchell was kicked off the team, Hankerson transferred for some reason, and Eblen decided not to play the extra year that he had. Mitchell, an All-American, was the main key to this team this year because he owned the baseline and anything around the goal and that is where Bama hurt the most this year. Hankerson gave the club some very good minutes off the bench, he had a decent shot from the outside. Eblen couldn't shoot a lick, but he could sure play defense.

Now let's look at what happened this year. The only senior on the team, Steele, gets hurt immediately and misses an extensive amount of games. Jacobs came in hurt and never had many quality minutes until the last few games of the season. Lacey goes down with an injury and misses some games, Releford goes down with an injury and misses some games, and Engstrom goes down with a knee injury and is lost for the season. Pollard was being counted on heavily but he showed immediatly that he needed some work and would not be a force on the team this year. Gueye is only a body on the floor playing hard but has very few skills to help the team.

I am really surprised they won as many games as they did but I am also surprised they didn't win even more games as well. There were some conference games that they let get away from them that could have made a big difference in their post season play but I can't be mad at them for losing them though, only disappointed. Now I might be mad about the Auburn game.

How good could this team have been had they had the other 3 players? I say they could have been a much better team than they were but what happened to those three are just bad breaks that go along with sports. This team played their hearts out for the most part but just came up short and I can't turn my back on them.

I'll be there Tuesday night cheering for them as though they were in the Big Dance, and I'll be there next season cheering them on in hopes of making it to the Big Dance. They have won twenty or more games the past three seasons, that is much more than they were winning before CAG came to Bama. There are brighter days ahead for this team. ROLL TIDE!!!!

[Catch Prothro]

We beat Tennessee twice, and probably kept them out of the NCAA Tournament.  Heh.

[2Stater]

What is so disheartening is that if Bama wins just one of those that got away against UT, LSU or the barn, they'd be dancing. But I'm with you, J, I admire their grit.

[pmull]

First of all welcome back Jamos. I have missed your posts for the last few weeks.

I think we have been a little hard on this years team for several reasons.

The inconsistant play. We start the season 6-0. We win the NY Tournament beating Villanova by 30. We got our hopes up at that point. We lost a heartbreaker to Cincinnati. We also lost on the road to VCU but most teams would have lost that game. The home losses to Dayton, Mercer and Tulane was unacceptable for a top tier SEC team. It looked like a long season at that point. SEC play started and we got on a roll. We won some big games and lost to good teams on the road. We won every home game. But the Auburn loss stung bad.

There is many reasons for the inconsistant play. The three players you mentioned leaving the team being part of it. I think Mitchell was the only difference maker of the three. I still point to Engstrom going down in the Cincinnati game. Engstrom was solid on defense and could make an easy basket or two each game. Jacobs coming back this year with a sore ankle and out of shape hurt us. It took him well into SEC play to reach where he was as a freshman last year. We have Sweet 16 guard play and NIT big men. Our post play on offense held this team back.

Expectations. We are Bama fans and we feel entitled to win. We put on the crimson glasses and were talking Sweet 16 before the season started. The so called experts picked us to finish 6th in the SEC. We finished tied for 2nd and made the semi-finals in the SEC Tournament. We overachieved in SEC play.

The disappointment comes down to 4 bad losses. We easily could be sitting 25-8 right now.

We did not get the NCAA bid we wanted but the NIT can be a stepping stone for next years team. Steele is the only player that will not be back next year. I will follow every game as I do all Bama sports.

[BAMAWV]

Jamos-- You've come along way since the season began. You've changed you opinions on a couple of points, and refined your views on a couple of others. I can't call you stubborn (today) nor can I say you have gotten too old to moderate your views. I hope my long winded, sometimes stubborn diatribes had something to do with that-- or maybe the REC threatened to tar and feather you if you made another glowing comment on our boy from the Senegal. That is for you to know.

But your are correct in that by the end of December, most of us were thinking our SEC schedule was maybe going to wind up below .500. But the guys on this team that can actually play basketball, played lights out, and I for one will never give up on them if I feel the are playing with their hearts. I think you said the same.

That was just about as much as a coach can get out of that amount of talent. I'll hold off until this time next year to get vocal for or against CAG. When I cheer during the NIT it will be for the additional practice time and game experience. It would be nice to win but a month later-- who will remember?

One/Two of the things I thought were perturbing Mitchell was Gueye and Engstrom. Early last year through January of this year, they clogged up the middle.  Gueye finally has quit camping in the lane (CAG blew 600 whistles in practices) but still does not know a ball screen from a ball sack reverse layup. But maybe Mitchell did not have the patience that Releford, for instance, has shown. How many times have you seen him wave Gueye out to set a screen, even though it is too late and the surprise is no longer possible. Releford is either trying to teach him to play or, as I said a week or two ago,  is just pointing out to CAG, "Hey, look at this Goofball." I think Mitchell also had other issues but one was those guys camping under the basket with a defender or two hanging around with nothing to do but block Mitchell on a drive. Mr. Green may have had similar issues with Huck and Buck.

Other things have happened. Cooper remains an enigma, as does Lacey. Although I can tell you with 90% accuracy which shots he'll miss (Lacey) as the ball leaves his hand. Pollard needs muscle and with it will come confidence. He is 18 against 21-22 year olds. Jacobs needs the offseason program again, as well.  But with a little help from real basketball players and 30 min a game, Jacobs can be a consistent 12-15 point guy. Hopefully a year of conditioning will help Lacey, Randolph, and Cooper, be more consistant and start adding a solid 8-10-12 each night with the once every 3 or 4 games hit 16-18.  That'll take heat off of Releford and he will go from 15-16 a game to solid 18-22. Our defense is solid but even that will improve by making them inbound pass 35 times a game.

Forget Steele, wish things could have been different for him. Also he should be always remembered and thanked for giving his all and working through a injury prone career. Someone was gonna knock Eblens head off anyway. He played "D" by being a in-your-face (not trash talk) irritating little piss ant. IDK what arrangement he and CAG had, but I haven't lost a seconds sleep. Hankerson must have had a real following as a high school player. I remember some Tide Sprotz forum guy kept saying send in Hankerson, like his 2-3 points was gonna help us being down by 14.  Finally, I think everyone on here has the "lyin' to your brother-in-law syndrome" where you may go around sayin', "We'd be in the Sweet Sixteen if only our seven-footer hadn't pulled up lame." :huge eye roll:

To the guys at the Tourney this weekend. Maybe LeeWillie? Was it Gueye that got the bench cautioned with maybe 6-8 min. to go Saturday? 9'GB does not know when to sit down and shut up. Lacey almost passed to him OOB because he wouldn't sit down like he was told. Maybe his big floppy foot on the line? I'd also love to know what Releford was trying to tell him, during the hugfest. Maybe TR was telling him NOT to tackle him anymore. I've also noticed him out of the game, then during a time out when CAG is giving heart felt suggestions (lol) to the guys in the game, Giraffe head leans in the circle and interrupts like there could even be remotely possible he had something worthwhile to say. An assistant drags him by the arm out of the way, and I am not sure he does not have a asst. coach assigned just to him, because I keep seeing the same guy grab him.LOL

The @Tennessee loss hurt the worst (JMHO) because it took all the wind out of the UK win. Just starting to get some national conversation then whamo!   We were on a 4 game run (4-1 SEC), UT would have made 5-1, and you could look down the road (including the barn) and see 14-1 going to Gainesville.          

[Catch Prothro]

I think Mitchell was the only difference maker of the three. I still point to Engstrom going down in the Cincinnati game.

We have Sweet 16 guard play and NIT big men. Our post play on offense held this team back.

We did not get the NCAA bid we wanted but the NIT can be a stepping stone for next years team.

Some good quotes.  Mitchell had some unknown issues that got him off the team.  Despite his athletic ability, he was a bad apple who couldn't, or wouldn't, do what was expected of him.

We do have Sweet 16 guard play.  Releford is the best in the SEC, and one of the best in the country, at what he does.  His assists numbers are on the low side for a PG, but he doesn't have a big man to pass to who can consistently score.  Now that Jacobs is healthy and playing up to last year's standards, we do have NIT level big men, before that, with Gueye, we had not much of anything inside on offense.

I too am hoping the NIT Tournament will act as a stepping stone.  I said early on it may be best for this team, but that was before they started playing so well in the SEC. 

[BAMAWV]

I think Mitchell was the only difference maker of the three. I still point to Engstrom going down in the Cincinnati game.

We have Sweet 16 guard play and NIT big men. Our post play on offense held this team back.

We did not get the NCAA bid we wanted but the NIT can be a stepping stone for next years team.

Some good quotes.  Mitchell had some unknown issues that got him off the team.  Despite his athletic ability, he was a bad apple who couldn't, or wouldn't, do what was expected of him.

We do have Sweet 16 guard play.  Releford is the best in the SEC, and one of the best in the country, at what he does.  His assists numbers are on the low side for a PG, but he doesn't have a big man to pass to who can consistently score.  Now that Jacobs is healthy and playing up to last year's standards, we do have NIT level big men, before that, with Gueye, we had not much of anything inside on offense.

I too am hoping the NIT Tournament will act as a stepping stone.  I said early on it may be best for this team, but that was before they started playing so well in the SEC.  

Forget sucking only on offense. Gueye AND Jacobs made All-SEC out of every big man we played.  I'm giving Jacobs a pass due to his offensive presence and the fact that he actually fought them defensively. If Gueye could not catch or swat the ball flat footed it was not worth his time. The only time he leaves his big floppy feet is to foul. I watched every big guy ( and a couple not so big) simply keep backing up on Gueye, until he was under the basket--but that seemed fine with him. He grabs 2-4 rebounds(1 or 2 are his own shot rebounded from where he tried to shoot underneath the goal--lol), he blocks 1 shot, misses a couple shots, gets a turnover or two, and 4 PFs. WHERE IS THE GAIN? Fouls are not always bad, particularly from a post player. It is a trade off, 2 fouls shots but no easy lay in. But Gueye wasted his on his 7'GB man he was guarding out 8' with his back to the goal-- this guy was harmless but 9'GB chose to foul him. Then he gets to the line, misses the first half of a 1-1 and 9'GB tries some spin move Eddie Lacy taught him just kidding around and gets a lane violation (puts the guy back on the line). Only player I've seen that is dangerous while on the bench. They bring him out and sit him down and he is still trying to lose the game for us. Remember that when Gueye is out, the rebounds that 9'GB gets (the ones that bounce right to him) would maybe have bounced right to Jacobs. Jacobs doesn't do much better defensively (sometimes a height disavantage)but at least he makes them work a little (gets them tired). HSC, SC, and some others have been patient with me during football season. But I'll bet if I said the same DA thing over and over they would quickly grow tired of it. "Hey, lets get a dumb guy who has never played football, has no skills carrying his books to class, and make him QB."    

If Engstrom (Gueye without the really GB stuff) had been healthy, every SEC coach would have been targeting him. "Get the ball down low to Young and Murphy. There is no sense in shooting 25-33% on 3's while they are giving 2s away at point blank range" or "Give it to Stokes. They can't stop him. Just back up to the goal turn around and shoot. That GB they have will get tangled in the net."    



  

[pmull]

Say what you want about Gueye but he and Jacobs are all we got. Gueye is out there giving it his all and I admire the effort. His defense is not as bad as you try to make it. His offensive ball skills are non-existant. I see nothing wrong with Gueye's enthusiasm on the bench either. In fact, I would not mind seeing more of that from all the players.

I don't remember what the topic was but Leewillie said in a post once something along the line of "once a player puts on the crimson jersey he has my full support". I feel that way as well.

[Marshal Dillon]

Say what you want about Gueye but he and Jacobs are all we got. Gueye is out there giving it his all and I admire the effort. His defense is not as bad as you try to make it. His offensive ball skills are non-existant. I see nothing wrong with Gueye's enthusiasm on the bench either. In fact, I would not mind seeing more of that from all the players.

I don't remember what the topic was but Leewillie said in a post once something along the line of "once a player puts on the crimson jersey he has my full support". I feel that way as well.

I agree completely with what you say. Gueye has made some good plays on defense and just having his body at the low post can prevent some easy layups by the other team. We all knew he was a project and would take time to develop. Hopefully, our 2 incoming big men can provide immediate help.


 

[BAMAWV]

Say what you want about Gueye but he and Jacobs are all we got. Gueye is out there giving it his all and I admire the effort. His defense is not as bad as you try to make it. His offensive ball skills are non-existant. I see nothing wrong with Gueye's enthusiasm on the bench either. In fact, I would not mind seeing more of that from all the players.

I don't remember what the topic was but Leewillie said in a post once something along the line of "once a player puts on the crimson jersey he has my full support". I feel that way as well.

I said in a previous rant how I hate to blast players-- that is rare when I do. I weighed this when I started getting pissed, early in the season and decided they'll (him or Engstrom) likely never see this forum. Even the fact that he is hurting the team he does not deserve a public lashing, that is Grant's fault and not Gueye's. Then I wander how many hours of practice have been wasted on him in two years, for him to still be doing the same  awkward things. I then think of other players laughing at the University for putting that kind of GB on the floor, although he has been given two+ years to straighten up. I wander how the "get back" coach feels when this GB is popping back up, not to applaude a score, but to block CAG view of the action and confuse (Lacey picked up his dribble and was about to pass to him) our guys on the court.  When he starts ruining Releford, Randolph, and yes, lately Obasohan's chance of success. When he starts aping NBA gangsta cagers, taunting opponents while they are eating his personal lunch, interupting CAG while he has 30 secs to get a message clear to the actual players, and when I come away with the impression that he thinks he is Dikembe Mutombo, I cannot help but want to send him home to Groundnutville.

 Come'on. How many times have you seen our opponents throw a 15' pass from say outside the arc to lay up range on the opposite side of the lane. Where was 9'GB? Standing behind him with his heels on the baseline. All this time (2 yrs) and no one has said, ""Try fronting your man or get perpendicular and get that big long GB arm out in front to prevent the easy pass inside." No one has ever said,"Bend your Gumby legs. so he cannot back you onto your heels." Or how about, "Just because you are assigned to defend 7'GB, it doesn't mean if someone else's guy gets away you cannot move between him and the basket stopping the layup. You don't stand and watch him breeze by, unless you can, without moving your big floppy shoes,--  swat at him.(lol) No one has ever told him to make sure you foul him if you miss blocking the shot. Run straight at him like a crazed Banchee instead of going straight up under control. Because your 1 or 2 blocks a game is what puts the asses in the seats." And, "Look we want you to occassionally switchoff around the rim, but chasing guys around the arc makes me start laughing and CMM will have my ass."  "BTW, don't dribble out there outside the arc either because you might bounce the ball of one of your big floppy shoes or run the clock out from your fingertips to the floor and back to your fingertips."

I thinks Jacobs is worth the extra effort by CAG. But I am amazed how slow he sometimes seems. At least on the court, Jacobs puts out great effort. Gueye is lazy and Engstrom (while PuttPutt Golf windmill energetic) isn't much better--both need to look into other areas of work,--perhaps Giraffe Dentists or Bigfoot Whisperers? The team has played better since CAG has been reducing Gueye's playing time. He doesn't need to be in there with Jacobs either. He'll get in Jacob's way, and he seems to be improving, both in talent and lately conditioning which, who would have dreamed it, helps the team.    

 

[McBaman]

So... here we are knocked out of NIT by Maryland.  What do we think now?

Being down here in central FL, I saw so little of the BB team than I am in no positon to make informed comments.  But if reflecting from afar is worth anything.... I'll say this team underachieved.  Probably an obvious comment.  The real question is why?

Post Maryland comments from the team are encouraging in that they seem to know they could have been better and aren't making excuses.  So let's hope that feeling of disappointment sticks with them through the summer, and they come back in shape for the fall. Maybe some of them will practice free throws an hour every day! CAG has to do a little soul searching and self critique too.  But more than anything it has to start with the players.

Just my humble uninformed opinion...

[SUPERCOACH]

I think they all need to spend the summer with Coach Cochran.  Not a lot of extra weight lifting, except maybe a little for the front court guys.  But mostly getting to the point where they can play the whole game without getting exhausted.  Run, run, and then run some more.  Then run up and down the bleachers at Bryant-Denny.  Then run from Bryant-Denny to Legion field and back.

I think a lot of our problems on offense stem from the fact that we wear ourselves out playing defense.  I haven't played a lot of basketball, but I do know that if your really tired it throws your shot off.  I think this can account for a lot of the dry spells on offense.  If we cut those dry spells down from 8 minutes to say 4, what a difference that would have made in the outcome of the season.  All of those close losses would have been 5 to 10 point wins.

It also wouldn't hurt for them to spend some time with CNS's sports psych guy.  Look what it did for the softball team.  It gave them that little extra edge so that when they were faced with adversity in the national championship finals with OU, they were laughing and dancing around in the rain while the OU team was feeling sorry for themselves because it was just too hard to play softball in the rain.

[Jamos]

There are many reasons in all of the posts of why Bama didn't do as well as we all would have liked, I'll throw my two cents worth in there.

First of all, I want to say that most of you are giving your opinions from watching the games on tv or listening to a broadcast. You only get to see where the ball is in most cases or when there is a replay of something that happened on tv and you only can visualize the plays when it is on a radio broadcast. There is much more that goes on in a game than what you see on tv or hear on a radio.

SC just made a statement in the post above that I thought had as much influence on the team's performance than anything else this year, fatigue. There were only 8 players on the team this year and nine for a short period of time and fatigue took a toll on these players at times. When you factor in there are only 8 players to start with and then a couple get into foul trouble, it really puts the pressure on the team because of their style of play. I think this really affected their shooting at times.

Player performance is another matter. I think some players get blamed for things that you really can't pass judgement on unless you were there. Gueye and Jacobs seems to be the biggest argument on here and rightfully so by what we saw or what we thought we saw this year. Gueye is lacking so many skills  but he was all we had for a big man and he does play harder than what some are giving him credit for. He makes a lot of mistakes because he just doesn't know not because he isn't trying. This man has only been playing basketball for about 6 years. Jacobs on the other hand came to Bama as a highly rated player, something that we expected a lot from. When you are at the game and watch Jacobs, it is very disgusting, he is very lazy, he couldn't set a screen or pick if he actually tried. I will say though that once he gets his hands on the ball he does look like a good player and does some good things He just doesn't have the effort that Releford, Randolph, Cooper, and the other starters display. I know he can play better because he showed us more last year. Engstrom is a better player than Gueye, but still he doesn't have the skills of Jacobs, just the height.

This team needs more players with starter capabilities. Obasohan really showed a lot of improvement by the end of the year and will help the team next year. Pollard was never a factor all year, he did have some bright moments at times this year but not many. He needs a lot of off season work to be the player everyone thought he would be. Lacey had a mediocre year from last year. He had some big moments as well but he sure had a lot of turnovers this year, some of them at very crucial times.Relefor, Randolph, and Cooper were the mainstays of the team this year. When all three were clicking, Bama was a pretty good team but that didn't happen often enough.

CAG has done a lot of recruiting this year, more than any of the football coaches per the pilot of the university's plane, and hopefully there will be some help on the way for next year. I don't know how much Gueye and Engstrom will improve in the offseason or if Jacobs will show up next year with more energy, but it would sure make this team a better team if that happen. I think Lacey just tried to do too much at times and it got ugly when he did but he is a better player than what we saw this year. Pollard needs to add some weight and learn how to shoot, in close and the outside.

This is my few cents worth, and I'm sure there will be lots of different  opinions on my thoughts, but it is just my opinion on what I viewed at the games. RTR!!

[Marshal Dillon]

There are many reasons in all of the posts of why Bama didn't do as well as we all would have liked, I'll throw my two cents worth in there.

First of all, I want to say that most of you are giving your opinions from watching the games on tv or listening to a broadcast. You only get to see where the ball is in most cases or when there is a replay of something that happened on tv and you only can visualize the plays when it is on a radio broadcast. There is much more that goes on in a game than what you see on tv or hear on a radio.

SC just made a statement in the post above that I thought had as much influence on the team's performance than anything else this year, fatigue. There were only 8 players on the team this year and nine for a short period of time and fatigue took a toll on these players at times. When you factor in there are only 8 players to start with and then a couple get into foul trouble, it really puts the pressure on the team because of their style of play. I think this really affected their shooting at times.

Player performance is another matter. I think some players get blamed for things that you really can't pass judgement on unless you were there. Gueye and Jacobs seems to be the biggest argument on here and rightfully so by what we saw or what we thought we saw this year. Gueye is lacking so many skills  but he was all we had for a big man and he does play harder than what some are giving him credit for. He makes a lot of mistakes because he just doesn't know not because he isn't trying. This man has only been playing basketball for about 6 years. Jacobs on the other hand came to Bama as a highly rated player, something that we expected a lot from. When you are at the game and watch Jacobs, it is very disgusting, he is very lazy, he couldn't set a screen or pick if he actually tried. I will say though that once he gets his hands on the ball he does look like a good player and does some good things He just doesn't have the effort that Releford, Randolph, Cooper, and the other starters display. I know he can play better because he showed us more last year. Engstrom is a better player than Gueye, but still he doesn't have the skills of Jacobs, just the height.

This team needs more players with starter capabilities. Obasohan really showed a lot of improvement by the end of the year and will help the team next year. Pollard was never a factor all year, he did have some bright moments at times this year but not many. He needs a lot of off season work to be the player everyone thought he would be. Lacey had a mediocre year from last year. He had some big moments as well but he sure had a lot of turnovers this year, some of them at very crucial times.Relefor, Randolph, and Cooper were the mainstays of the team this year. When all three were clicking, Bama was a pretty good team but that didn't happen often enough.

CAG has done a lot of recruiting this year, more than any of the football coaches per the pilot of the university's plane, and hopefully there will be some help on the way for next year. I don't know how much Gueye and Engstrom will improve in the offseason or if Jacobs will show up next year with more energy, but it would sure make this team a better team if that happen. I think Lacey just tried to do too much at times and it got ugly when he did but he is a better player than what we saw this year. Pollard needs to add some weight and learn how to shoot, in close and the outside.

This is my few cents worth, and I'm sure there will be lots of different  opinions on my thoughts, but it is just my opinion on what I viewed at the games. RTR!!

You make good points on several areas but most teams have an 8 man rotation, which is common in the NBA, too. I think the fatigue factor is a product of our intensive defensive play and maybe the lack of proper conditioning, like others have pointed out. Jacobs has been the X factor all year. pmull stated in a thread that Jacobs had a bad ankle at the start of the season and was out-of-shape on top of this. This goes hand in hand with your statement that he is lazy & he is not staying in good condition. My question is, how do you explain our lousy offense with the poor outside shooting and long periods of no scoring in almost every game?


 

[BAMAWV]

These are college age players, not 10 year olds. You cannot yell at a guy to, "...get in there and start making some shots," and expect results. You cannot "teach a guy to shoot" over the summer. You cannot make a guy shoot from 6am to 10pm every day, all summer, to make a pure shooter out of a mediocre shooter. 

To see marked improvement, you need to work within the confines of what the player has always done. Let's use Lacey as an example. A good Coach can go back and look at film of his shooting when, for instance, he has had 20 pt. nights in H.S. Then compare that shot, the mechanics, with the mechanics of his shooting 2 -14 against an SEC opponent. Find what differences there are and then practice to try and rectify the bad mechanics-- elbow out, all arm -no wrist, fingertip control or palm, etc. Much the same as a Golf Coach analyzing a swing for a pro player.

Once you have identified areas of concern and the player has practiced to rectify it, then that has to be taken to a game and practiced against a "D". The guy with a broom will work some, but you need to have the player running the court against real competition to get his old shot back. This may be helpful for Lacey (if the NCAA doesn't find out) but it wouldn't work for a player that has never had skills to build off.

But if you are one of the guys on here that thinks all you need to do to get more offense is to hold a team meeting, quit it! 

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