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Author Topic: Time to Fire Coach Avery Johnson-Articles About CAJ Included  (Read 6233 times)
Marshal Dillon
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« on: March 16, 2019, 03:15:26 PM »

I guess it's time to quit beating around the bush and state flat out what we need to do. First, I would like to address a thoughtful post by pull from a few days ago. My comments will be in red.


The comparison between Grant's teams and Johnson's teams end at the 17-12 records after 29 games in the last 5 years. As SC said the SEC as a whole is much stronger. Our SEC non conference schedule is also stronger under CAJ. Our record against ranked teams is much improved. To Grant's credit he rarely lost to a bad team but he never beat a good team. Other ways CAJ is better than Grant:

1. CAJ plays an exciting style of basketball. When we play well we are fun to watch. Grant was boring even when we won. Most wins were low scoring games like 62-58. We are a much better offensive team under CAJ.

This comment confuses me. Yes, we are exciting at times, but mostly our offense is sloppy, turnover prone, with players standing around and will go long stretches without scoring, usually 5-8 minutes of game time.

2. CAJ has to recruit against Bruce Pearl. CAJ had to recruit against Barbee who never had a winning season.

This point is irrelevant. Recruiting is part of the job no matter who you are up against, whether Barbee or Coach K.

3. CAJ promotes the program. He is on radio, TV, commercials, big screen at football games, etc. Grant was a hermit except on game day.

Agree, but so what, he still isn't winning games and having inconsistent team play. I want a good basketball coach, not a great used car salesman.

4. CAJ and his staff does a better job of developing players. Players under Grant never got any better than the day they showed up on campus. A few examples are Jimmy Taylor and Donta Hall developed into good (not great) big guys. An example this year is Petty. Last year he was a three point shooter. When his shot was off (and that is often) he was no help to the team. This year he is posting up smaller guards, driving the basketball and developing a two point game. He is also rebounding the ball.

Besides Donta Hall, who has really been developed? Petty was recruited to shoot and score from 3 point range and elsewhere. He has improved defensively, but has regressed horribly as a shooter. Jimmy Taylor was okay but nothing special.

5. CAJ is a better recruiter.

A dead fish would recruit better than Anthony Grant. No doubt CAJ has recruited well, but what does he have to show for it, 17-12 record every year. It's about wins, period.


We have a good Atlectic Director in Greg Byrne. I hope he is putting out feelers to see if an experienced and proven home run hire is available. I do not think he will find one better than what we already have. As long as CAJ is motivated and wants to be our coach I think he will only get better. Like everyone else I want to win NOW. However, I am concerned about starting starting all over with an unproven coach.

I'm having doubts about the AD after his disastrous extension of Johnson's contract in 2017 to 2023. What the heck was he thinking?


I am still buckled up!


 


« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 08:25:47 PM by Marshal Dillon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2019, 04:00:32 PM »

MD, you didn't answer the big questions:

1.  Who is going to pay the $8 million to buy out CAJ, plus the millions needed to get another coach?

2.  What coach will come to Bama after Bama has fired a "home run hire" in a youthful Anthony Grant followed by a former NBA coach of the year?

 





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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 04:01:07 PM »

Great discussion targets but what does the AD do? RTR!
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 04:36:45 PM »

My reasons for wanting CAJ fired should be obvious to all, but I will regurgitate them. First, besides better recruiting and being an outgoing person, what improvements are easily observable? Here are a list of negatives, in my opinion:

1)  The team play is inconsistent, to say the least. Hot & cold, up & down and no one knows what to expect from game to game, except inconsistency.

2). Free throw shooting, do I need to say more. Imagine having 2 players on the floor at the same who shoot less than 50% from the FT line, Smith & Jones, plus throw in our favorite statue, 6'11" Daniel Giddens who shoots under 40% from the line. Maybe, we should recruit guys who can hit at least 75% from the line. Where's the coaching priority for this important part of the game?

3)  Ball handling-This is another disaster area under CAJ, epitomized by excessive turnovers, poor passing, and decision-making with the ball.

4)  We beat Kentucky, but lost to mighty Georgia State (we blew a 22 point lead), lost to Northeastern by 16 of Colonial Athletic Association, who finished 23-10 and won their conference title, so they go dancing. We lost twice to A&M (including in T-town) who just fired their coach, & lost to Auburn & Florida in T-town. We finished the year going 3-7 in last 10 games.

5)  Avery Johnson was hired 4 years ago and is 18-15, 8-10 SEC this year and planning for the NIT. Rick Barnes, UT, was hired 4 years ago and is 28-4, 15-3 and probably a #2 seed in Big Dance and playing UK right now. Ben Howland was hired 4 years ago by Misses State and is 23-10, 10-8 and will probably go dancing. Now, talk is that A&M is pursuing Coach Buzz Williams, a good, solid coach. Can we really blow another year on CAJ or do you think he will magically improve his coaching after 4 years with very little overall improvement?



I have more to say but have to stop right now.



 2 + 2 = 4




« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 11:09:51 AM by Marshal Dillon » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2019, 05:29:24 PM »

MD, you didn't answer the big questions:

1.  Who is going to pay the $8 million to buy out CAJ, plus the millions needed to get another coach?

2.  What coach will come to Bama after Bama has fired a "home run hire" in a youthful Anthony Grant followed by a former NBA coach of the year?

 







We have the money. The athletic department had like a $15 mil profit last year plus it's been profitable for years due to Saban. When fans quit showing up next year, then what? Grant was a mistake who proved after 6 years at Bama the SEC was too big for him. Plus, here's some info on CAJ while at Dallas:



Quote
Dallas’s season ended on Tuesday with a 99-94 loss to the New Orleans Hornets that continued a poor playoff record.

During Johnson’s time in charge, Dallas had an impressive 194-70 record in the regular season but were 23-24 in post-season games including 12 losses in the last 16 games.

The Mavericks lost the 2006 finals to the Miami Heat after letting a 2-0 lead slip, losing the next four games.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nba-mavericks/mavericks-fire-coach-avery-johnson-after-playoff-exit-idUSN3053796120080430



Also, if he’s such a good NBA coach, why isn’t he coaching there now.



 Dog



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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2019, 08:12:37 PM »

Great article. Please read it.



Quote
Alabama still doesn’t know how to play hard for 40 minutes.

Barring a miracle on Selection Sunday, this basketball season is all but over for coach Avery Johnson’s team, and his players, it seems, remain completely baffled by the level of energy it takes to compete for the entire length of a basketball game.

It is inexplicable and mystifying.


Quote
Johnson has an $8 million buyout, so letting him go now would take some doing. Alabama is committed to basketball, though, so making a change is not off the table if the team doesn’t make the Tournament, according to a source with direct knowledge of Alabama’s thinking.



Quote
His players like Johnson, sure, but they don’t respond consistently enough to his coaching. He is organized and professional and a better strategist than people care to realize, but his players haven’t bought into what he’s selling.

In his post-game interview after the loss to Kentucky, Alabama senior Donta Hall was candid in his assessment of the team’s inconsistencies when he blamed them on “attitude, and stuff like that. Commitment.”


Quote
How much more time is Alabama willing to give Johnson? Patience is running low amid an SEC landscape where quality basketball coaching now rivals football. It’s a basketball conference, too, and Alabama wants desperately to be among the league’s top teams. Athletic director Greg Byrne has put a strong emphasis on improving Alabama basketball, and he didn’t hire Johnson, a high-profile coach because of his experience in the NBA, but one who has struggled with adapting to the college game.


Quote
There’s no money to motivate players, so it’s up to the coaches to figure that out. Johnson isn’t a great motivator.



Quote
Johnson then said his team’s “energy levels” were something “we’ve got to take a look at.”

Take a look at? The season is over. Energy is a hard-earned and hard-learned skill, like shooting a jump shot. You don’t just take a look at it after being knocked out of a conference tournament.



A precise explanation of the team & Johnson.



Click here for link




 




« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:24:20 PM by Marshal Dillon » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 08:26:15 PM »

If they weren't committed and play hard in practice why were they rewarded with playing time in games during the season?
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2019, 08:29:56 PM »

If they weren't committed and play hard in practice why were they rewarded with playing time in games during the season?



Excellent point. I wondered the same thing. CAJ is thinking they should be self-motivated, like NBA players, except these are college players. CAJ doesn’t come across as a disciplinarian or motivator.



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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2019, 08:32:46 PM »

If they weren't committed and play hard in practice why were they rewarded with playing time in games during the season?



Excellent point. I wondered the same thing. CAJ is thinking they should be self-motivated, like NBA players, except these are college players. CAJ doesn’t come across as a disciplinarian or motivator.








I have said this before he seems like an everyone gets a ribbon type of coach.  I understand wanting to be positive, but sometimes you have to jump some a@@ and get their attention to let them know mediocre is not acceptable.  I don't pat you on the back because you do what you are suppose to, I pat you on the back when you go above and beyond.
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2019, 08:43:48 PM »

Well one thing I just saw on espn bracket listing was Georgia St. is a 11 seed I believe. That is really embarrassing. RTR!
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2019, 09:22:57 AM »

MD, I always enjoy your comments and this post is no different. We do not always agree but I like reading your point of view. With that said my post was a direct comparison of CAJ and Grant. I also expect more from our basketball program. I was around for all of the CM Newton and Wimp Sanderson years. Those were exciting times when we expected to win every game. That was not the point of my post. Posters were stating that the program after 4 years of Grant and 4 years of CAJ are exactly the same. I do not agree and compared the two. You agreed with most of my comparisons but you went on to say why you were still not happy with where the program is at. I agree with that but that was not the topic being discussed.

If CAJ is back I will still be buckled up. I think the available list of candidates is limited. The $8M buyout is also a problem. If we get a new coach who ever it is will get my full support.

See my comments below in green.

I guess it's time to quit beating around the bush and state flat out what we need to do. First, I would like to address a thoughtful post by pull from a few days ago. My comments will be in red.


The comparison between Grant's teams and Johnson's teams end at the 17-12 records after 29 games in the last 5 years. As SC said the SEC as a whole is much stronger. Our SEC non conference schedule is also stronger under CAJ. Our record against ranked teams is much improved. To Grant's credit he rarely lost to a bad team but he never beat a good team. Other ways CAJ is better than Grant:

1. CAJ plays an exciting style of basketball. When we play well we are fun to watch. Grant was boring even when we won. Most wins were low scoring games like 62-58. We are a much better offensive team under CAJ.

This comment confuses me. Yes, we are exciting at times, but mostly our offense is sloppy, turnover prone, with players standing around and will go long stretches without scoring, usually 5-8 minutes of game time.

I think the above bold comments are true.

2. CAJ has to recruit against Bruce Pearl. CAJ had to recruit against Barbee who never had a winning season.

This point is irrelevant. Recruiting is part of the job no matter who you are up against, whether Barbee or Coach K.

I was just stating a fact.

3. CAJ promotes the program. He is on radio, TV, commercials, big screen at football games, etc. Grant was a hermit except on game day.

Agree, but so what, he still isn't winning games and having inconsistent team play. I want a good basketball coach, not a great used car salesman.

I felt this was a very important after 4 years of Grant not even wanting to do an interview. I still think it is important. Winning sells tickets but you have to promote your program and CAJ does a good job of that.

4. CAJ and his staff does a better job of developing players. Players under Grant never got any better than the day they showed up on campus. A few examples are Jimmy Taylor and Donta Hall developed into good (not great) big guys. An example this year is Petty. Last year he was a three point shooter. When his shot was off (and that is often) he was no help to the team. This year he is posting up smaller guards, driving the basketball and developing a two point game. He is also rebounding the ball.

Besides Donta Hall, who has really been developed? Petty was recruited to shoot and score from 3 point range and elsewhere. He has improved defensively, but has regressed horribly as a shooter. Jimmy Taylor was okay but nothing special.

Petty is developing an all around game. He is inconsistent as a three point scorer. He needed to improve his all around game so he can help the team even when his shoot is not going in. He is better defensively, rebounding and developing a two point game. Jimmy Taylor improved a lot under this staff. He needed another year to really see the difference IMO. Obashan went from a seldom used reserve to an ALL-SEC player. I think if given time you will see improvement from younger players like Reese and Smith.

5. CAJ is a better recruiter.

A dead fish would recruit better than Anthony Grant. No doubt CAJ has recruited well, but what does he have to show for it, 17-12 record every year. It's about wins, period.

We agree on this point.


We have a good Atlectic Director in Greg Byrne. I hope he is putting out feelers to see if an experienced and proven home run hire is available. I do not think he will find one better than what we already have. As long as CAJ is motivated and wants to be our coach I think he will only get better. Like everyone else I want to win NOW. However, I am concerned about starting starting all over with an unproven coach.

I'm having doubts about the AD after his disastrous extension of Johnson's contract in 2017 to 2023. What the heck was he thinking?

Your opinion and mine differ.


I am still buckled up!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 10:15:54 AM by pmull » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2019, 09:29:09 AM »

 Applause E-Cred guys this is great stuff. Thanks for posting to the max of the subject. RTR!
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2019, 11:24:57 AM »

To pmull:


I too was watching/listening to Tide basketball starting in 1968. It was an all white team with a 6’7” center who could jump 6 inches off the ground. They went 4-20 or 4-22. Then, starting in 1969, slowly but surely C. M. Newton gave us players like Wendell Hudson, TR Dunn, Reggie “the Mule” King (my favorite player), Leon Douglas, Anthony Murray, and on & on of good to great players over the years. Wimp continued the the tradition. I long for those days but it’s all about coaching. Get the right coach and good things will happen.

By the way, we probably agree on things 95% to 98% of the time.



 


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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2019, 11:56:03 AM »

To pmull:


I too was watching/listening to Tide basketball starting in 1968. It was an all white team with a 6’7” center who could jump 6 inches off the ground. They went 4-20 or 4-22. Then, starting in 1969, slowly but surely C. M. Newton gave us players like Wendell Hudson, TR Dunn, Reggie “the Mule” King (my favorite player), Leon Douglas, Anthony Murray, and on & on of good to great players over the years. Wimp continued the the tradition. I long for those days but it’s all about coaching. Get the right coach and good things will happen.

By the way, we probably agree on things 95% to 98% of the time.


CM Newton went 40-62 in his first four seasons at Bama.  You would have fired him long before he had any success.  That success was -- two NCAA Tournament invites in 12 years of coaching, making it once to the second round, plus four NIT invites. 

CAJ already has done most of this, second round NCAA Tournament and three NIT invites in 4 years.  If CAJ makes it to the NIT and NCAA Tournaments once each in the next two years, he would equal Newton's success in half the time.

(There's no denying Wimp's success, taking over after Newton.)

I'm not an impatient fan.  Yes, there are problems with the team.  There are coaching issues that need addressing.  But give CAJ a chance to address them.  He's not a perfect coach, but for the time being, he is Alabama's coach. 

Until someone ponies up $8 million -- it's easy for you to spend other people's money, good thing you're not a politician.   Cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2019, 01:38:27 PM »

To pmull:


I too was watching/listening to Tide basketball starting in 1968. It was an all white team with a 6’7” center who could jump 6 inches off the ground. They went 4-20 or 4-22. Then, starting in 1969, slowly but surely C. M. Newton gave us players like Wendell Hudson, TR Dunn, Reggie “the Mule” King (my favorite player), Leon Douglas, Anthony Murray, and on & on of good to great players over the years. Wimp continued the the tradition. I long for those days but it’s all about coaching. Get the right coach and good things will happen.

By the way, we probably agree on things 95% to 98% of the time.


CM Newton went 40-62 in his first four seasons at Bama.  You would have fired him long before he had any success.  That success was -- two NCAA Tournament invites in 12 years of coaching, making it once to the second round, plus four NIT invites.  

CAJ already has done most of this, second round NCAA Tournament and three NIT invites in 4 years.  If CAJ makes it to the NIT and NCAA Tournaments once each in the next two years, he would equal Newton's success in half the time.

(There's no denying Wimp's success, taking over after Newton.)

I'm not an impatient fan.  Yes, there are problems with the team.  There are coaching issues that need addressing.  But give CAJ a chance to address them.  He's not a perfect coach, but for the time being, he is Alabama's coach.  

Until someone ponies up $8 million -- it's easy for you to spend other people's money, good thing you're not a politician.   Cheesy




You’re mixing apples & oranges. The NCAA Tourney had only 32 slots back then for conference champions, there was no SEC Tourney. We went 22-4 during regular season and went to NIT because we did not win conference, Vandy did. You think that would happen now? Also, Newton showed steady progress each year with records of 4-20 1-17 SEC, 8-18 5-13 SEC, 10-16 6-12 SEC (this was 1970 & the Tide started off on fire with Wendell Hudson averaging like 15- 25 point a game but then he broke his wrist which caused the team to nosedive, then year 4 was the breakout year going 18-8 13-5 SEC. Hudson led the SEC in rebounding and scored around 20 points game. He was 6’6” but jumped center for Bama because he could JUMP! I remember the excitement and expectation of year 5 since Hudson was going to be a senior that year. Now, do you really think I would have wanted Newton fired after he took a basketball program that was hopelessly bad and in 4 years took it to 3rd best record in the SEC with the great Wendell Hudson coming back for his senior year? CAJ took an average program and after 4 years still has an average program. I ask again, do you want to keep CAJ around another year to save $2 million and see the Tide sink further or do we take a chance on another coach? Coaching hires are always a gamble. I say let’s move on and go for it. CAJ ain’t getting any better.



 


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