Northwestern players seeking Union representation

[ALTideUp]

Smoke breaks after each 7 minutes. No overtime games without an 8 hour break. RB limited to 15 carries.; QB's to 20 pass attempts; etc etc etc. The end of football as we know it.

Social change happens. It either happens reasonably and gradually, or the forces of the status quo hold out so long that pressure builds, so that when change occurs it causes an earth quake. We should have offered more to the athletes long ago, like the enhanced stipends, something like a trust fund that would pay them after their time in college was up, whatever. Instead, those who make perverse amounts of money from the system disingenuously pined about the ideals of amateur collegiate athletics, or anything else they could think of, to maintain the status quo. And now it's come to the point where players feel they need a union to be taken seriously. So let's not be too surprised if it's time for the earth quake. Perhaps this fall's incident at Grambling was the first rumble.

Yeah, I guess that $60,000 a year education those "poor" Northwestern players are getting is just chicken feed. I spent 7 years in the Army to use a GI Bill. The tuition, rent, food, medical care, & books a player gets at Alabama is $25,000 a year. How much more can we give them? Most folks are getting loans, working 2 part-time jobs, & more to pay for college.



 

There is a difference between not having to pay and getting an education. Compared to the average student, the athletes carry significant additional responsibilities that keep them from becoming properly educated (see ESPN expose about student athletes). The time commitment involved in training, practice, and game travel takes the players out of class and away from their studies. With a few notable exceptions, their majors are the least demanding on campus, and that choice is not an accident. They are also saddled with all sorts of rules about who they can receive financial help from, where they can work, etc., that a typical student isn't saddled with. They are even saddled with rules that an card carrying republican (just guessing MD) would rail against as restraint of trade: Namely, the rule that says you can't go to the NFL whenever you want. The point of my original reply was not to endorse drastic measures like a union, but to say that the sport has missed the chance to make modest but meaningful adjustments, like stipends.

You say you were in the service, right. They gave you free food, board, and a salary. You might even have gotten a pension. I could tally up the value of all that stuff and then say it was plenty: what business did they have giving you help with college. Answer: Though you were paid and provided for you put your career on hold and did a great service for your country. How is asking for stipend beyond the scholarship for players any different than your scholarship beyond your stipend?

 
These help to make my argument more persuasive, because I have more of them than you.

[Jamos]

Smoke breaks after each 7 minutes. No overtime games without an 8 hour break. RB limited to 15 carries.; QB's to 20 pass attempts; etc etc etc. The end of football as we know it.

Social change happens. It either happens reasonably and gradually, or the forces of the status quo hold out so long that pressure builds, so that when change occurs it causes an earth quake. We should have offered more to the athletes long ago, like the enhanced stipends, something like a trust fund that would pay them after their time in college was up, whatever. Instead, those who make perverse amounts of money from the system disingenuously pined about the ideals of amateur collegiate athletics, or anything else they could think of, to maintain the status quo. And now it's come to the point where players feel they need a union to be taken seriously. So let's not be too surprised if it's time for the earth quake. Perhaps this fall's incident at Grambling was the first rumble.

Yeah, I guess that $60,000 a year education those "poor" Northwestern players are getting is just chicken feed. I spent 7 years in the Army to use a GI Bill. The tuition, rent, food, medical care, & books a player gets at Alabama is $25,000 a year. How much more can we give them? Most folks are getting loans, working 2 part-time jobs, & more to pay for college.



 

Exactly MD. This is a can of worms they never want to open if college football is to survive. There's a lot of us in this world that think we deserve more, but in reality we take what we are getting and make the most of it. I would say the players are payed an average salary for playing college football and that's more than a lot of folks make.

[cbbama99]

I would pay them to let me on the field. 

and we would pay to see it   

HTWSC???   

[2Stater]

I would pay them to let me on the field. 

and we would pay to see it   

HTWSC???   

 

[XBAMA]

Northwestern players seeking Union representation

this is an excellent opportunity for a new Neil Young song   

[KoKoPuf]

Not every school fills their stadiums and makes huge profits. How do they pay players? Increased taxes? Or just shut down their FB program?

[SUPERCOACH]

I would pay them to let me on the field. 

and we would pay to see it   

HTWSC???   

 

I would probably play AJ's position, and I would be the first Heisman winner at that position if they gave it to me.  No, I'm not talking about QB.  I'm talking about FG holder.  The only position I can think of that doesn't involve running.  On the other hand, I probably could have outrun 7 or 8 of the guys we had on the field for the last play of the Iron Bowl. 

[ALTideUp]

Not every school fills their stadiums and makes huge profits. How do they pay players? Increased taxes? Or just shut down their FB program?

This is a good point. I think the issues of fairness concern the power conferences in which schools do fill their stadiums and make big profits. I believe the recent talk of some sort of separate category for the power conferences was motivated, at least in part, by the desire to try things like stipends without having to impose those costs on smaller programs that cannot afford them. If you are going to Kent State you really can't make the argument that tons of people are getting rich off you, the way someone playing at Bama or Texas or Michigan can.

[Marshal Dillon]

Not every school fills their stadiums and makes huge profits. How do they pay players? Increased taxes? Or just shut down their FB program?

A couple of years ago there was an article that said only maybe 27 college athletic programs made a profit for the year. Also, if we pay football programs, what about all the other programs like golf, baseball, softball, etc. It is a HUGE disaster and it can not be done. Again, these players are receiving HUGE amounts of benefits by participating in sports.


 

[ALTideUp]

Not every school fills their stadiums and makes huge profits. How do they pay players? Increased taxes? Or just shut down their FB program?

A couple of years ago there was an article that said only maybe 27 college athletic programs made a profit for the year. Also, if we pay football programs, what about all the other programs like golf, baseball, softball, etc. It is a HUGE disaster and it can not be done. Again, these players are receiving HUGE amounts of benefits by participating in sports.


 

You can keep saying that but it doesn't make it any more true. You are wrong. They are not getting a lot. For most players, giving them a free $100k education is like buying them a Lambo but telling them they can't drive it. The cost of what they get is not the same as the value of what they get. They are not getting nearly the same quality education, and frankly, some of the players do not have the preparation to benefit from that education - like having a Lambo but not knowing how to drive. I am a professor, and I can attest that for underprepared students, college courses are torture, just as painful and humiliating as it would be for me if I tried my hand at fullback. And there is the opportunity cost - if they could go to the NFL whenever they wanted, the successful ones would be making way more than their scholarships.

The issue about differential stipends for star players is a thorny one, but I see no issue with the sports that still fulfill the ideals of amateur athletics, like the ones you mentioned. Those sports do not make billions in TV, licensing, tickets, etc. The students who play them are much more likely to have adequate ability and preparation to benefit from their college educations, and the demands of training and practice are much less. But here's the true, American, test: What happens if the UA Golf Team walk off the first tee and refuses to play their match? Now what happens if the UA Football team decides that they will not play next week's game? If you want, you can run the numbers.

I have for many years argued that college football will eventually crack under it's own weight. Things like this and congress getting involved in the BCS selection process, etc.,  are the first stress fractures.

[XBAMA]

this thread is very entertaining ,

so far we have figured out the meaning of life , went to the Worlds Fair three times ,
launched two Space Shuttles and devised a plan to save college football with the cherry on the top of this sweet pie is Supercoach winning the Heisman 


but nobody got my Neil Young joke 

[2Stater]

this thread is very entertaining ,

so far we have figured out the meaning of life , went to the Worlds Fair three times ,
launched two Space Shuttles and devised a plan to save college football with the cherry on the top of this sweet pie is Supercoach winning the Heisman 


but nobody got my Neil Young joke 

I did. 

Just now saw it.

[ALTideUp]

this thread is very entertaining ,

so far we have figured out the meaning of life , went to the Worlds Fair three times ,
launched two Space Shuttles and devised a plan to save college football with the cherry on the top of this sweet pie is Supercoach winning the Heisman 


but nobody got my Neil Young joke 

I did. 

Just now saw it.

Not one of his better efforts.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoUVBYHYy4s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoUVBYHYy4s</a>

[XBAMA]

this thread is very entertaining ,

so far we have figured out the meaning of life , went to the Worlds Fair three times ,
launched two Space Shuttles and devised a plan to save college football with the cherry on the top of this sweet pie is Supercoach winning the Heisman 


but nobody got my Neil Young joke 

I did. 

Just now saw it.

I would say college has evolved a lot from our day 2 ,
wouldn't you ?

I mean , back then if any students acted up they would just call
out the National Guard and do ... well , there's a song about it

[pmull]

I would pay them to let me on the field. 

and we would pay to see it   

HTWSC???   

 

I would probably play AJ's position, and I would be the first Heisman winner at that position if they gave it to me.  No, I'm not talking about QB.  I'm talking about FG holder.  The only position I can think of that doesn't involve running.  On the other hand, I probably could have outrun 7 or 8 of the guys we had on the field for the last play of the Iron Bowl. 

Breaking News. Heisman Trophy hopeful SC is out for the rest of the year. While trotting onto the field to hold for an extra point he pulled a hamstring, blew out his knee and somehow dislocated his shoulder. He appears to be more fragile than Brodie Croyle.

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