Alabama Basketball & Close Losses

[Jamos]

So just accept the fact, that until fans show up in droves for every game, until Bama makes it to the NCAA Tournament every year and guys go in the NBA draft on a regular basis,

All of these things were happening in the not so distant past.

When Wimp was in Tuscaloosa BAMA was #2, behind UNC, for active players in the NBA.  BAMA continued to consistently send players to the next level with both Hobbs and Gottfried as head coaches.

that Bama is destined to be an above-average SEC but otherwise middle-of-the road basketball team.

I would be happy with this, but as of now this is not the situation.  As of now, BAMA is a middle of the road SEC basketball team, and that is being generous.

Wins fill seats.  Coaching brings wins.

Coaches don't win games, players win games. It's amazing that the players can look so good at times and then look so bad at other times. This tells me that the players have been coached if they can play so well at times. Again I'm not taking up for the coaches but I'm not throwing them under a bus either. These players can do a lot more than they have been showing because I've been there and watched them do it.

Jamos, be honest. Do you really, really believe that this Alabama football team would be 11-1 with Mike Shula as head coach or the 2009 team would be 14-0? They both would be 8-4 at THE VERY BEST. Look at Chiznik last year & Malzahn this year. All the great teams win with great coaches.


 

Do really think that CNS and staff is the reason Aurburn beat Bama recently?

[Marshal Dillon]

So just accept the fact, that until fans show up in droves for every game, until Bama makes it to the NCAA Tournament every year and guys go in the NBA draft on a regular basis,

All of these things were happening in the not so distant past.

When Wimp was in Tuscaloosa BAMA was #2, behind UNC, for active players in the NBA.  BAMA continued to consistently send players to the next level with both Hobbs and Gottfried as head coaches.

that Bama is destined to be an above-average SEC but otherwise middle-of-the road basketball team.

I would be happy with this, but as of now this is not the situation.  As of now, BAMA is a middle of the road SEC basketball team, and that is being generous.

Wins fill seats.  Coaching brings wins.

Coaches don't win games, players win games. It's amazing that the players can look so good at times and then look so bad at other times. This tells me that the players have been coached if they can play so well at times. Again I'm not taking up for the coaches but I'm not throwing them under a bus either. These players can do a lot more than they have been showing because I've been there and watched them do it.

Jamos, be honest. Do you really, really believe that this Alabama football team would be 11-1 with Mike Shula as head coach or the 2009 team would be 14-0? They both would be 8-4 at THE VERY BEST. Look at Chiznik last year & Malzahn this year. All the great teams win with great coaches.


 

Do really think that CNS and staff is the reason Aurburn beat Bama recently?

You're avoiding the question about Shula. No coach is going to win EVERY game, not Bear Bryant, not Nick Saban, & not Coach K. Again, I ask you, do you honestly believe this team would be 11-1 with Mike Shula? Please answer the question.

 

[pmull]

So just accept the fact, that until fans show up in droves for every game, until Bama makes it to the NCAA Tournament every year and guys go in the NBA draft on a regular basis,

All of these things were happening in the not so distant past.

When Wimp was in Tuscaloosa BAMA was #2, behind UNC, for active players in the NBA.  BAMA continued to consistently send players to the next level with both Hobbs and Gottfried as head coaches.

that Bama is destined to be an above-average SEC but otherwise middle-of-the road basketball team.

I would be happy with this, but as of now this is not the situation.  As of now, BAMA is a middle of the road SEC basketball team, and that is being generous.

Wins fill seats.  Coaching brings wins.

Coaches don't win games, players win games. It's amazing that the players can look so good at times and then look so bad at other times. This tells me that the players have been coached if they can play so well at times. Again I'm not taking up for the coaches but I'm not throwing them under a bus either. These players can do a lot more than they have been showing because I've been there and watched them do it.

Is it possible the team plays well at times in spite of the coach? We have good players that were sought after recruits coming out of high school. I like CAG and I want him to do well. I am concerned he is losing the team and the fan base. I am beginning to question his coaching decisions. I do not think we uses his time outs wisely. When we break from a time out we rarely run a set play that works or even looks like a set play. I do not understand his substitution pattern. In the Xavier game their two big guys were killing us. Why not give Jimmie Taylor a chance. He is a rebounder and shot blocker. Taylor only played 8 minutes in the game. Why take the hot guy out. Shannon Hale scored 14 points in 13 minutes. We went 9 minutes without a basket late in the game when Xavier went to a zone. I wanted CAG to put Hale in.

I will not give up on the team. I want them to do well. However, we have an RPI of 129 good for 9th in the league. Realtime RPI is projecting us to go 8-10 in the SEC and have a overall losing record. That is unacceptable in year 5.

[Marshal Dillon]

So just accept the fact, that until fans show up in droves for every game, until Bama makes it to the NCAA Tournament every year and guys go in the NBA draft on a regular basis,

All of these things were happening in the not so distant past.

When Wimp was in Tuscaloosa BAMA was #2, behind UNC, for active players in the NBA.  BAMA continued to consistently send players to the next level with both Hobbs and Gottfried as head coaches.

that Bama is destined to be an above-average SEC but otherwise middle-of-the road basketball team.

I would be happy with this, but as of now this is not the situation.  As of now, BAMA is a middle of the road SEC basketball team, and that is being generous.

Wins fill seats.  Coaching brings wins.

Coaches don't win games, players win games. It's amazing that the players can look so good at times and then look so bad at other times. This tells me that the players have been coached if they can play so well at times. Again I'm not taking up for the coaches but I'm not throwing them under a bus either. These players can do a lot more than they have been showing because I've been there and watched them do it.

Is it possible the team plays well at times in spite of the coach? We have good players that were sought after recruits coming out of high school. I like CAG and I want him to do well. I am concerned he is losing the team and the fan base. I am beginning to question his coaching decisions. I do not think we uses his time outs wisely. When we break from a time out we rarely run a set play that works or even looks like a set play. I do not understand his substitution pattern. In the Xavier game their two big guys were killing us. Why not give Jimmie Taylor a chance. He is a rebounder and shot blocker. Taylor only played 8 minutes in the game. Why take the hot guy out. Shannon Hale scored 14 points in 13 minutes. We went 9 minutes without a basket late in the game when Xavier went to a zone. I wanted CAG to put Hale in.

I will not give up on the team. I want them to do well. However, we have an RPI of 129 good for 9th in the league. Realtime RPI is projecting us to go 8-10 in the SEC and have a overall losing record. That is unacceptable in year 5.

I am totally mystified about  the status of Taylor & Hale. Were they injured or sick? I have heard no legitimate reason for why they had limited play, especially Hale. He was on fire, then Grant threw cold water on the fire. Maybe he doesn't like their defensive skills, but right now we need scorers. I don't get it.


 

[Catch Prothro]

Jamos, be honest. Do you really, really believe that this Alabama football team would be 11-1 with Mike Shula as head coach or the 2009 team would be 14-0? They both would be 8-4 at THE VERY BEST. Look at Chiznik last year & Malzahn this year. All the great teams win with great coaches.

Shula actually did OK given the players he had and scholarship reductions.  He wasn't as bad as you guys like to make him out. Bama started out 9-0 in 2005 but ultimately lacked the depth to compete with LSU and then Auburn at the end of the season.  Losing Prothro didn't help either.

We fans have very short memories. We beat NOBODY in 2005 and when we played 2 good teams, LSU & Auburn, we lost. Also, he was 6-6 the next season. Plus, don't you think it strange that such a "good" coach has not had ONE SINGLE head coaching job in the last 7 years? Sounds like a hot commodity to me.

Saban's record his first year with these players was no better.

[Marshal Dillon]

Jamos, be honest. Do you really, really believe that this Alabama football team would be 11-1 with Mike Shula as head coach or the 2009 team would be 14-0? They both would be 8-4 at THE VERY BEST. Look at Chiznik last year & Malzahn this year. All the great teams win with great coaches.

Shula actually did OK given the players he had and scholarship reductions.  He wasn't as bad as you guys like to make him out. Bama started out 9-0 in 2005 but ultimately lacked the depth to compete with LSU and then Auburn at the end of the season.  Losing Prothro didn't help either.

We fans have very short memories. We beat NOBODY in 2005 and when we played 2 good teams, LSU & Auburn, we lost. Also, he was 6-6 the next season. Plus, don't you think it strange that such a "good" coach has not had ONE SINGLE head coaching job in the last 7 years? Sounds like a hot commodity to me.

Saban's record his first year with these players was no better.

So you're saying we should have kept Shula, right? And how do you explain that absolutely no one has hired him as a Head Coach in the last 7 years since he was obviously such a good coach?


 

[Catch Prothro]

Jamos, be honest. Do you really, really believe that this Alabama football team would be 11-1 with Mike Shula as head coach or the 2009 team would be 14-0? They both would be 8-4 at THE VERY BEST. Look at Chiznik last year & Malzahn this year. All the great teams win with great coaches.

Shula actually did OK given the players he had and scholarship reductions.  He wasn't as bad as you guys like to make him out. Bama started out 9-0 in 2005 but ultimately lacked the depth to compete with LSU and then Auburn at the end of the season.  Losing Prothro didn't help either.

We fans have very short memories. We beat NOBODY in 2005 and when we played 2 good teams, LSU & Auburn, we lost. Also, he was 6-6 the next season. Plus, don't you think it strange that such a "good" coach has not had ONE SINGLE head coaching job in the last 7 years? Sounds like a hot commodity to me.

Saban's record his first year with these players was no better.

So you're saying we should have kept Shula, right? And how do you explain that absolutely no one has hired him as a Head Coach in the last 7 years since he was obviously such a good coach?


 

I'm saying that some of you guys dog Shula unnecessarily.  He was hired in a no-win, career-killing situation, bowl bans and scholarship reductions in a team with through-the-roof expectations that had recently gone quickly through three other coaches.  He had never been a head coach before, and had little if any college coaching experience.  So to equate him with Chizick is simply unfair.  He was a deer-in-the-headlights facing a challenge he was unprepared for. 

Shula always said he would only leave the NFL for a job at Alabama, and he's kept to his word.  I have no doubt that if he were interested, he could find a smaller school to take a chance with him and let him develop as a college coach.  So the answer to your question is that Shula isn't interested.  He's currently the OC at the Carolina Panthers making more money than that anyway.

If you can identify a coach that Bama could have hired at the time that would have done a better job, please provide a list: 

[roll tide roll]

Saban's record his first year with these players was no better.

Not so fast my friend.

Saban's first year team finished 7 - 6 with a win in their bowl game.

Shula's (Coach Kines's) last team finished 6 - 7 with a loss in their bowl game.

Same bowl, essentially the same team, different outcome.

I knew the corner had been turned and so did the players.

*
I was a fan of Mike Shula when he was a qb at BAMA.  I was a fan of Mike Shula when he took on the unenviable task of coaching his alma mater, under punitive restrictions, in the toughest conference in the country.  I am still a fan of Mike Shula.  If I ever have the pleasure of meeting him again I will thank him and give him a ROLL TIDE!.  Mike did some good things, and there are somethings that he did not do.

That being said, coaching matters.  

Since we are talking about basketball, Roy Williams won with Matt Doherty's recruits and players.  These were the same players that Doherty could not win with.

[Catch Prothro]

Saban's record his first year with these players was no better.

Not so fast my friend.

Saban's first year team finished 7 - 6 with a win in their bowl game.

Shula's (Coach Kines's) last team finished 6 - 7 with a loss in their bowl game.

Same bowl, essentially the same team, different outcome.

Splitting hairs, are we?  

Kines coached the bowl game, so can't really count that.

Saban had JPW and the entire offensive line return.  

I'm not saying coaching doesn't matter.  Just that all these folks who still dog on Mike Shula, when he answered momma's call, should give it a rest.

[Jamos]

Jamos, be honest. Do you really, really believe that this Alabama football team would be 11-1 with Mike Shula as head coach or the 2009 team would be 14-0? They both would be 8-4 at THE VERY BEST. Look at Chiznik last year & Malzahn this year. All the great teams win with great coaches.

Shula actually did OK given the players he had and scholarship reductions.  He wasn't as bad as you guys like to make him out. Bama started out 9-0 in 2005 but ultimately lacked the depth to compete with LSU and then Auburn at the end of the season.  Losing Prothro didn't help either.

We fans have very short memories. We beat NOBODY in 2005 and when we played 2 good teams, LSU & Auburn, we lost. Also, he was 6-6 the next season. Plus, don't you think it strange that such a "good" coach has not had ONE SINGLE head coaching job in the last 7 years? Sounds like a hot commodity to me.

Saban's record his first year with these players was no better.

So you're saying we should have kept Shula, right? And how do you explain that absolutely no one has hired him as a Head Coach in the last 7 years since he was obviously such a good coach?


 

I'm saying that some of you guys dog Shula unnecessarily.  He was hired in a no-win, career-killing situation, bowl bans and scholarship reductions in a team with through-the-roof expectations that had recently gone quickly through three other coaches.  He had never been a head coach before, and had little if any college coaching experience.  So to equate him with Chizick is simply unfair.  He was a deer-in-the-headlights facing a challenge he was unprepared for. 

Shula always said he would only leave the NFL for a job at Alabama, and he's kept to his word.  I have no doubt that if he were interested, he could find a smaller school to take a chance with him and let him develop as a college coach.  So the answer to your question is that Shula isn't interested.  He's currently the OC at the Carolina Panthers making more money than that anyway.

If you can identify a coach that Bama could have hired at the time that would have done a better job, please provide a list: 

I agree with you CP, no one else wanted the job. Shula had one big fault, he was too kind hearted and he seemed to treat the players like he treated his children. I was around Mike quite a few times with his family and if his kids were spoiled it wasn't because of his wife, he was to blame for that. Mike was way too kind of a person to ever be a good head coach but you have to give him credit, he tried to do what no one else wanted to do. As some of you have stated, he sure doesn't deserve the hate that he gets from some of the fan base.

[N.AL-Tider]

I agree with you CP, no one else wanted the job. Shula had one big fault, he was too kind hearted and he seemed to treat the players like he treated his children. I was around Mike quite a few times with his family and if his kids were spoiled it wasn't because of his wife, he was to blame for that. Mike was way too kind of a person to ever be a good head coach but you have to give him credit, he tried to do what no one else wanted to do. As some of you have stated, he sure doesn't deserve the hate that he gets from some of the fan base.

Some folks are just gonna hate when they can.  Bill Curry coached teams improved every year he was the head coach at Bama.  First year he went 7-5 (4-2 SEC), Second year, 9-3 (4-3) and his final year they were 10-2 (6-1 and won the SECC).  Because he couldn't beat Awbren he got fired...or was there more to his firing?

[2Stater]

I agree with you CP, no one else wanted the job. Shula had one big fault, he was too kind hearted and he seemed to treat the players like he treated his children. I was around Mike quite a few times with his family and if his kids were spoiled it wasn't because of his wife, he was to blame for that. Mike was way too kind of a person to ever be a good head coach but you have to give him credit, he tried to do what no one else wanted to do. As some of you have stated, he sure doesn't deserve the hate that he gets from some of the fan base.

Some folks are just gonna hate when they can.  Bill Curry coached teams improved every year he was the head coach at Bama.  First year he went 7-5 (4-2 SEC), Second year, 9-3 (4-3) and his final year they were 10-2 (6-1 and won the SECC).  Because he couldn't beat Awbren he got fired...or was there more to his firing?

Curry wasn't fired. He made the rocket science decision to quit and take the Kentucky job.

[N.AL-Tider]

I agree with you CP, no one else wanted the job. Shula had one big fault, he was too kind hearted and he seemed to treat the players like he treated his children. I was around Mike quite a few times with his family and if his kids were spoiled it wasn't because of his wife, he was to blame for that. Mike was way too kind of a person to ever be a good head coach but you have to give him credit, he tried to do what no one else wanted to do. As some of you have stated, he sure doesn't deserve the hate that he gets from some of the fan base.

Some folks are just gonna hate when they can.  Bill Curry coached teams improved every year he was the head coach at Bama.  First year he went 7-5 (4-2 SEC), Second year, 9-3 (4-3) and his final year they were 10-2 (6-1 and won the SECC).  Because he couldn't beat Awbren he got fired...or was there more to his firing?

Curry wasn't fired. He made the rocket science decision to quit and take the Kentucky job.

Well,  yeah.  But he didn't get the fan support that he should have gotten either though...

[Catch Prothro]

I agree with you CP, no one else wanted the job. Shula had one big fault, he was too kind hearted and he seemed to treat the players like he treated his children. I was around Mike quite a few times with his family and if his kids were spoiled it wasn't because of his wife, he was to blame for that. Mike was way too kind of a person to ever be a good head coach but you have to give him credit, he tried to do what no one else wanted to do. As some of you have stated, he sure doesn't deserve the hate that he gets from some of the fan base.

Right, he started the job in May?  What coach is available in May?  At a school that recently fired two coaches and had a third one leave for the Aggies?  It was Shula or Croom, and Bama was lucky to get either.

He was only 37 when Bama hired him, obviously not ready for a big stakes job like Bama, but he gave Bama something that was sorely needed at the time, integrity and class, and he paved the way for Bama to go out and get the coach it really wanted when the time was right.

[pmull]

Shula was put in a difficult position. Like every one has said he took the job when no one wanted it. I loved him as a player and supported him as our coach. I never have understood why Alabama fans dislike him so much.

As Jamos said he was too kind hearted. He was too loyal to his assistant coaches, especially OC Dave Radar. If I recall correctly he would not have been fired if he was willing to hire a new OC and turn the offense over to them. We were rock solid on defense with Joe Kines.

Shula is a respected assistant coach in the NFL. I hope one day he can return to Tuscaloosa and get the proper reception he deserves.

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