Putting things into perspective...

[carl childers]

I felt this forum would be the place to ask this - I hope I don't get raked over the coals, but it is an honest question that I have asked myself.

Over the past couple of years, the Alabama-Auburn rivalry has gotten more nasty than usual, cresting with the Updyke poisoning of the Toomers trees. Over the last couple of weeks, this state has seen destruction that it has never seen before, and now the tragic death of AD. I know that things don't just happen - everything that happens is part of God's will. I have been asking myself this: is all this happening because God is trying to tell us that there are more important things in life and that we should not let things like football and material possessions dominate our lives? I am in no way trying to trivialize the destruction and the death we have seen - very sad and disturbing. However, the events of the last couple of weeks has brought people together to meet the needs of others like no other time I have seen. Am I completely off-base in even allowing these thoughts to come into my head? I am not saying that I feel these thoughts are justified - I am just confused and seeking some guidance from my Christian brothers and sisters in this area.

[ricky023]

Hello Carl. I think you are right on with your thinking. I believe all the worldly things that we love so much more than Gods' Word, he is removing his hand off of us to let us see what it will be like without him. I am not going to sit here and quote scripture all although I could, but the thing of the hour is you are right I think. God Bless my brother. RTR!

[carl childers]

Thanks Ricky. I know that God sends messages to us in one form or another all the time, and I do feel that maybe this time some fans of both schools can see that the rivalry needs to be put aside for more important things in our lives. Sometimes it's just hard to verbalize such things. Just this week we had an unexpected death of one of our school nurses - just a very sad situation. I went to the families house and spent some time there. As I was speaking to them, I told them that I wasn't sad for Martha, but I was sad for them. I then added that we know where Martha is and she would not want to come back - she is at the feet of our Lord and Savior. After I left, I thought to myself, I hope I didn't offend them by saying these things. However, they are strong in their faith - I believe they most likely know exactly what I meant.

[SUPERCOACH]

I think it is a great question and topic for discussion.

Obviously I don't know the answer, but I do have some observations and thoughts.

1.  It is not unprecedented from a biblical perspective (Noah and the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah).  God has caused bad things to happen when people become too evil, or so it seems.

2.  But then there is the whole rainbow part of the flood story.  I don't believe God causes these things at all.  God does sometimes allow bad things to come into our lives in order to get our attention.  I say He is not the cause, ultimately that responsibility falls on us.  If we were paying attention to Him in the first place He would not need to allow things to happen in order to shake us up.  Think of Job.

3.  We are only seeing things from a human perspective.  What we see as death, God sees as simply a change in address.  If you are saved when you die, then you are moving to the best "neighborhood" you could possibly imagine, actually even better than you can imagine.  So while we here on earth mourn, heaven is rejoicing and having a welcome home party.

4.  If you are not saved, well then that is a different "neighborhood" entirely.  I am sure this saddens God similarly to the way we as humans feel when we lose a close loved one.  However I am sure His burden is even many times heavier than ours, since this is the eternal death from which there is no return or reprieve.  Especially when you consider everything He has done to prevent it.  Imagine how a parent would feel if they knew within their parental wisdom that a child was about to be killed, such as a child playing in the road.  Now imagine the parent has told that child many, many times not to play in the road.  Now imagine the parent hears a large truck on the highway, many miles away.  The parent goes to look for the child and can't find them.  Then they run out toward the highway to look for the child.  From a distance, they see the child playing in the road again, and the truck is getting closer.  They begin to run toward the road yelling at the child, but it is still a long way down the driveway to the road.  The child hears them and turns to look, but does not obey.  The truck can be heard clearly now, even by the child, although it is still out of sight on the other side of a hill.  The parent knows exactly what is about to happen, but the mind of that young child is simply too inexperienced to make the connection between the sound, the truck they can't see, and the ultimate conclusion of what is about to happen.  It simply does not register in the mind of that young child.  The parent continues to run as fast as they can, screaming as loud as they can the whole way.  The child looks back with an arrogant and defiant smirk, refusing to get out of the road... yet again.  Suddenly the truck comes flying over the hill and the driver slams on the brakes.  The child freezes in terror in those final moments, realizing what their disobedience has cost them.  The parent gets to the edge of the highway, but it is too late.  They can only watch the tragedy.  I imagine that must be how God feels every time a lost soul dies the eternal death.

5.  After thinking about #4 for a little while, I am now more sure than ever that God does not cause these things to happen.  He certainly has the power to prevent them though.  So why does He allow bad things to happen?  I have meditated on this for years, and I have come to realize that it is all about free will.  Free will is critical to God.  Going back to my previous example, he gives that child the free will to choose whether or not they play in the road or obey their parents.  There would be no way for him to save that child (remember I am really talking about lost souls here) without violating that very free will that He has given them.

6.  Why is free will so critical to God?  It is because you can not have love without free will.  It is impossible.  It is not love at all, unless it is freely given, without conditions.  If you are forced to "love" something, then it isn't love.  Obedience, perhaps, but not love.  True unconditional love can only be the act of a free will.

7.  If God gave us free will in order to have love, then how important is love?  This question can best be answered by one of my favorite scriptures:

1 Corinthians 13

¹If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.  ²If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.  ³If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

⁴Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.  ⁵It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.  ⁶Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.  ⁷It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

⁸Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.  ⁹For we know in part and we prophesy in part,  ¹⁰but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.  ¹¹When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.  ¹²For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

¹³And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

8.  So now we come to this, the final question.  The answer to which will bring everything into the proper perspective.  Why did God create us in the first place?  The answer seems quite simple to me now.  He wants to be loved.  He created us, then gave us the gift of free will.  All so that we may choose to love him unconditionally, just as He does us.  Now that free will introduces a problem though.  He knew from before the beginning of time that we would not be able to handle the awesome responsibility that comes with such a gift and would at times use it inappropriately.  So before He ever said "let there be light", He already had created His plan of salvation.  Jesus, God's very son, the only man ever to walk the face of planet earth (and waters too) who could handle the gift of free will perfectly without making a single mistake, had to pay the price on the cross for our mistakes.  This ransom allows us to be reconciled to God, so that we can all live with Him in a state of mutual unconditional love for all eternity.

9.  Finally, after realizing everything written above, it seems appropriate for those lost souls to be cast away to live outside the presence of God for all eternity.  With free will, of course there are going to be some who simply choose not to love God.  They chose their destination by rejecting God's only plan for their reconciliation.  They had their own plan for their life.  They do not love God, so why should He spend eternity with them?  They will be left to their own personal hatred and misery, which is exactly what they wanted in the first place.

Just some thoughts.  I could be wrong, but that is the conclusion I have come to after many years of pondering these types of questions.

[carl childers]

Great points. God does not cause bad things to happen. Bad things happen because we live in a fallen world. The only reason we are allowed to NOT experience bad all the time is because of the Hand of protection from God. I don't deserve anything good to happen in my life due to being a woeful sinner - I can only count the good things in my life as blessings from God! What an awesome God we serve!

[SUPERCOACH]

Absolutely.  This begs the question:  why does God place His hand of protection over some of His children, but not others?

It is because He has a divine purpose for our lives, a purpose that we have yet to complete.  He has a calling for each of us.  He has a very specific mission for each of us to accomplish in life, in order that ultimately every soul that has ever lived is made fully aware of the situation so that they are educated about the facts and consequences of their decisions.  When your mission is accomplished, then and only then will He call you home.

Now I am not just talking about pastors, prophets, preachers, teachers, and evangelists.  Some are called to do those 5 fold ministry type things full time for sure, but not everyone is equipped for such missions.  And some poor lost souls are just to stubborn to listen to those full time folks any way and can only be influenced by "normal" every day people.

If you are following God's plan for your life, rest assured that He has you at exactly the right spot for a reason.  Each of us has a sphere of influence over friends, relatives, and every day acquaintances.  It doesn't matter if you are a janitor or a doctor, if you are one of God's children He has you there for a reason.  Quite simply, that reason is to let your light shine as bright as you can shine it, so that others will be drawn into the light.  Your very life, and the way in which you live it, serves as an irrefutable testimony to all the lost souls of the world.

If you have not yet found your purpose in life, search for it with all your heart.  That should be one of your top priorities after you accept Christ.  And here is a hint for you if you are totally at a loss:  look at your God given talents.  He gave you those talents for a reason.  He intends for you to use them to accomplish the mission He has laid out for you.  Use your talents and trust fully in God to direct your foot steps along the right path.

Again, these are just my opinions.  I'm not an expert.  After all, God called me to be a lowly computer programmer. 

[ricky023]

Well as he says in the New Testament, he would love to gather us in his arms but he only knows those who chose to be his children.It is simple when the world denies him then he can do nothing but keep his hand of protection off them. The righteous sometimes have to suffer with the unrighteous. God Bless!

[cbbama99]

I won't get into a theological debate about small matters that most likely don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I will say that there is always a reason for why things occur. We do not always know or understand why, but we can rest assured that God has allowed something to happen to serve His purpose. We do not serve a god that is flawed and makes things happen on a whim, just because he feels like messing with mankind. Our God is perfect in every way; His ways are not our ways. Sometimes horrible things happen in this world, things that we don't understand and often wonder why God let it happen. I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that all things, good or bad, eventually serve God's eternal purpose for creation. When you think all is chaos, remember that it is all fitting into His plan and is really not chaos at all.

[XBAMA]

my wife has ask me several times in the past when things are going wrong or in turmoil
"how do you stay so calm ?" for a example , like say if ...
someone runs a stop sign and almost hits us , she freaks out , I'm good with it , God didn't want it to happen
so when she asks the "how do you" question my answer is all ways the same
"as long as we aren't dead , dieing or bleeding everything will be alright"

it's because I know everything happens for a reason and what I mean by that is ... God has a plan .

I believe the rivalry between UA and AU had went way to far recently like Carl said
to be honest ? really , I have expected something to happen , just not of this magnitude .
thoughts had entered my mind that someone is going to end up dead if this keeps going like it is .
but I never dreamed it would be this bad , one thing is for sure , it brought the people of Alabama together .

the one thing these disasters have in common ... after they happen things seem to get better
people seem to care more , be kinder to their fellow man , more thoughtful and giving .
things that everyone was at each others throat about vanish
like after 9/11 ... in my lifetime I can never remember American as a nation being as one that much before
it was like there was no black or white , rich or poor , no you look different than me , no Democrats or Republicans 
we were all just Americans ...   
it felt great , it didn't last but while it did it was awesome ...

I believe that God was showing us how it should be and how it could be , we heard him we just didn't listen
we just didn't learn , he gave us another chance , but we chose to go back to like it was before ...
hating each other , divided on every issue under the sun , one group trying to destroy the other group .

God is speaking to us all the time , just this time he was firm with his message
the question's are ... "when will we listen ?" when will we learn ?
he gave us the rule book ... it's all in there , all the info we ever need to make it work .
all we have to do is use it ...





 

[SUPERCOACH]

Great discussion everybody.

[Marshal Dillon]

I do hope the fanaticism of many of the fans on both sides of the football field have learned something about what's important in life and football is WAY down the list. It's a game, not life and death.


 

[carl childers]

I won't get into a theological debate about small matters that most likely don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I will say that there is always a reason for why things occur. We do not always know or understand why, but we can rest assured that God has allowed something to happen to serve His purpose. We do not serve a god that is flawed and makes things happen on a whim, just because he feels like messing with mankind. Our God is perfect in every way; His ways are not our ways. Sometimes horrible things happen in this world, things that we don't understand and often wonder why God let it happen. I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that all things, good or bad, eventually serve God's eternal purpose for creation. When you think all is chaos, remember that it is all fitting into His plan and is really not chaos at all.

And like coach said, certain happenings are "horrible" in our own human eyes. Don't mean to diminish any human suffering at all, but these areas are but a blip on the radar screen in God's eyes. One day we will gain the understanding to see the purpose of human tragedies and see how it all fits into God's plan.

[cbbama99]

I won't get into a theological debate about small matters that most likely don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I will say that there is always a reason for why things occur. We do not always know or understand why, but we can rest assured that God has allowed something to happen to serve His purpose. We do not serve a god that is flawed and makes things happen on a whim, just because he feels like messing with mankind. Our God is perfect in every way; His ways are not our ways. Sometimes horrible things happen in this world, things that we don't understand and often wonder why God let it happen. I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that all things, good or bad, eventually serve God's eternal purpose for creation. When you think all is chaos, remember that it is all fitting into His plan and is really not chaos at all.

And like coach said, certain happenings are "horrible" in our own human eyes. Don't mean to diminish any human suffering at all, but these areas are but a blip on the radar screen in God's eyes. One day we will gain the understanding to see the purpose of human tragedies and see how it all fits into God's plan.

Very true, CC.

[Guest]

Username:
Password:
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

There aren't any users online.

Loading Tweet...