Crimson Red Sports

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?_r=1

No way Paterno can stay after this.  He's past his prime, past his time, and now is implicated in a mess.  He's likely wondering why he stayed so long.

People are saying he did what the law required by reporting the incident.  But clearly he knew there was a problem, and knew that kids were being assaulted, and he didn't do what is expected of a person of his stature (help resolve the problem).  

Unfortunately, JoPa will forever be remembered as someone who helped cover the scandal, even though he didn't do it directly.  It's a shame and shameful.

I think Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden both tarnished their legacies by staying in the game too long.  Paterno has tarnished his more than Bobby Bowden, though.  It would have been better for them both to retire several years before they did.  They still would have both gone out as a couple of the greatest coaches ever, but also they would have gone out with grace and dignity.

This is why coaches should not be around when they're like 75 or older. In 2002, when Paterno was around 74 or 75, is when he was informed of the assault in the shower. Did he fully grasp what was told to him? Was he so close to Sandusky that he couldn't see clearly? Most everyone in that athletic department owes their job to Paterno, which is another huge problem. Like I said in another post, they need to thoroughly clean house, fumigate the place, and establish some firm rules, like no little kids with non-relatives are allowed in the facilities.

I would not be surprised if Paterno is out before this weekend.

The cover up by the AD and VP coupled with the probability of Paterno's involvement in not reporting these matters straight to the state police has led to more children being abused.

Also opens up PSU to millions and millions in liability lawsuits.

JoePa is somebody I want to like, but after this, I have no respect.  I would imagine any player worth anything character-wise would have to feel the same way, especially considering the boys who were abused are probably college aged  (and a little older) by now.  He needs to leave. 

Bobby Bowden and Lou Holtz also come to mind as people who stayed past their prime.  Spurrier is knocking on the door IMO.  Their legacy won't be tarnished nearly as bad as Paterno's.

I am going to give JoePa the benefit of the doubt, for now.  I just can't imagine he knowingly allowed this to happen.  There has to be a reason he didn't go to the police.

I feel the same way SUPERCOACH......we need to have a better understanding of what, when  in regards to JoePas side of the story. I thought the Grand Jury commended JoePa on his actions.....

I am so confused that the coach I knew who hd good battles with CBB on the football field, and now he has participated in allowing young kids to be molested? I don't know what to say. We see people with a past of trust and honesty and then find out he was a wolf in sheep's clothing just blows me away. Will his legacy of a great football coach follow him or the latter scandal and football means nothing? Man what a bumper. RTR!

After you pass the info on.... I would think you'd inquire about it about a day or two later. If it wasn't acceptable go to the police yourself.  :dunno:

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/11/08/the-legendary-paterno-cant-be-allowed-to-coach-another-game/

Grand jury testimony indicates he knew and gave the info to his superior. That maybe offers his excuse according to the law. According to BAMAWV law he became as guilty as Sandusky when he saw the AD and Pres. sweep this crime under the rug and did nothing. He is as guilty as if he held a boy down while Sandusky raped them.

Paterno had to know something was wrong or else he's the biggest ignoramus on the planet. He's guilty of either ignoring rthe problem, being incredibly stupid, or just not caring. Either way, he should be fired immediately.


 :punk: :dog:

http://blog.pennlive.com/bobflounders/2011/11/lavar_arrington_speaks_his_min.html

In 1990 my family was tailgating in Tuscaloosa before the PSU game. Some Penn. State fans came by and we discussed the game. I remember them telling us to watch for the linebacker LaVar Arrington. Sure enough we were killed by PSU 19-6 and Arrington led their defense. He went on and had a great NFL career.

In my state , "Teachers and Other school personnel" are mandatory reporters of child abuse.  Telling the boss is not enough and will get you in serious trouble.  Pennsylvania's mandatory reporters list is different in wording," School administrators, teachers, School nurses, social services workers or any other child care or foster care workers".  Is Joe Paterno considered a teacher?

I have a close friend that is a PSU grad. I've attended a couple of Happy Valley games with him. The last time, years ago, we spent the night at a friend of his house. I slept on an old couch that Saturday. It has been a long running joke between he and I about how miserable I was on that couch. Here was my email to him this afternoon:

I am recalling having to sleep on that junk couch at PSU. But now, I guess I am lucky it was just my back hurting on the ride home!

Yes, but we don't know exactly what kind of info he had just yet and whether or not he thought it was credible.  I am not defending him by any means.  I am just saying that him covering up something like this or even looking the other way is so out of character for who I perceived him to be.

Did somebody come in and say explicitly what they saw:  "Coach Sandusky was molesting a young boy in the shower."  In this case, of course JoePa should have gone straight to the police.  Or straight to Sandusky to beat him to death.

Or did they say something like:  "Hey Coach Sandusky brought in one of his boys from the charity and was showing him around.  Somebody told me that they saw him go into the shower".  In this case maybe JoePa goes and tells the AD he needs to tell Sandusky to quit bringing those boys in here or somebody might get the wrong idea.

I have no idea what happened in regards to JoePa.  I will give him the benefit of the doubt, for now, until I hear more details.

Sandusky on the other hand... I have no words to describe how I feel about him.

Maybe he told the AD what was rumored to happen, but he didn't believe it.  Then maybe the AD comes back and says, "Yeah JoePa we looked into that and there was nothing to it.  He brought in one of his charity boys and they were looking around and working out.  Afterwards the boy was sweaty and wanted to hit the showers before they left.  We told him to stop bringing those kids here and letting them use the shower before somebody gets the wrong idea."

I know I am just making this up as one possibility.  I have no idea what actually happened.  But I will wait until his side of the story comes out before I group him together with that pedophile and the administrators that covered it up.

If he really did look the other way then I hope he gets what he deserves.  Like you said, it is the same as holding those kids down.

I just read a story that said the grad assistant clearly told Paterno a child was being sexually assaulted.

Be careful everyone we all know about the word ass-u-me.  ;)

I heard today the hearing for Sandusky is Dec. 7. IDK how much detail that will reveal, because generally those preliminaries are just basic "legal housekeeping". I see your point SC, to reserve judgement until the facts actually become facts. But I'm not shaking hands or touching anything with PSU on them, to err on the side of caution.

Then Paterno says "AND YOU DIDN'T STOP IT!!! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!!"

To which he replies, "Well, uh, hmm..., uh, I don't know coach.  Maybe he was just taking a shower."  :dunno:

Also... We have not heard from JoePa yet.  So we are basing what we know about JoePa's involvement on what the guy who saw the assault and didn't stop it is saying about JoePa.  Not exactly a credible witness.

This is pure speculation on my part, but it seems like the grad assistant witness is trying to shift the blame to JoePa because he did absolutely nothing to stop it even though he saw it with his own eyes.  :dunno:

I will wait to hear from JoePa first.  He wants to tell his side, but they won't let him just yet.

Read the Grand Jury report I posted. The Grand Jury found the grad assistant very credible and the Penn State admins as evasive and not credible.

Is this the same grand jury that said JoePa did nothing wrong?  :dunno:

Admittedly I have not read the whole report.  I stopped after reading the story of Victim 1.

I want to hear JoePa give an account for his actions (or lack thereof) before I come to a conclusion.

I just caught a glimpse of the ESPN "crawler" that said Sandusky under court order not to be alone with his grandchildren. I don't have grandchildren, nor am I expecting any any time soon. But that would be about the time some people would die, if I was being unfairly persecuted.

I have no doubts that Sandusky is guilty of all counts (and many that were not reported).  I have no evidence, only the news reports that we have all read.  But somehow my gut tells me he is guilty as charged, while my gut tells me that JoePa was oblivious to what was going on right under his own nose, along with all of the parents of those victims.  We will see soon enough I reckon.

I think you are being overly generous in your assessment of Paterno. Sandusky has been with him since 1963, first as a player then a coach. To say Paterno did not have a clue about this guy for at least 15 years is just not realistic. This make Paterno either totally incompetent or at the very least, guilty of benign neglect, or in other wwords, he didn't want to know.

Maybe.  But did you see the interview with Matt Millen on Sportscenter yesterday?  He said he has known Sandusky since 1976 (I think).  Sandusky was his position coach at PSU.  When Sandusky wanted to start the Second Mile charity he came to Millen first.  Millen was on the board of the charity.  Sandusky had been to Millen's house on several occasions.  Millen said that when he thought back on all those years, he could not have imagined that Sandusky would do this.  Millen was visibly angry, and there is no way he would not have put a stop to this had he known what was going on.  He even said he would like to take care of this himself, but that isn't the right thing to do.  So if Millen was fooled, then I can see where JoePa could have been fooled too.  These perverts are very skilled at hiding what they do.

I have not seen the latest news today, so maybe something has come out that will change my opinion.  I just saw on ESPN.com that JoePa is going to retire at the end of the season, so I guess I will go read that and see what it says.

Take some time to read all this SC. I'm sure you haven't because I think I know you will see it way different. Sorry to  come on this strong but:

The grand jury does not declare anyones guilt or innocence. They simply hand down indictments when they are convinced a crime has been committed. All the grand jury said while not indicting JoPa, was that the evidence presented to them did not rise to the level needed to obtain a conviction. As stated by the spokesperson or investigator for the Pa. State Police was that while CJP may not be guilty criminally, he certainly is guilty morally. You never hear the state police, or anyone really, come out publically and slam someone (particularly Joe Paterno in Pennsylvania) like the state police did.

While his statement (in the grand jury recap posted above) may be slightly watered down from the asst. coaches version, but the important part is verified by both Paterno and the asst.--Joe Paterno was told about Sandusky (at least open sexual misconduct on school property) and Paterno told the AD. That was ALL he did.


Get out of town. I'm getting Sandusky in my office immediately. I'm getting in the car (truck) to find Sandusky. I'm also keeping the assistant with me to face Sandusky. I'm getting to the bottom of it all before I do anything else. If CNS is on the phone, I'm telling him I'll have to call him back.

Then I'm not whining about how I just want to finish the season coaching. I realize, or others around me explain to me, that I was a cheap POS for giving Sandusky a pass on raping a kid and I resign in shame so that maybe someone up there may realize it is NOT ok to get children to trust you, and then rape them.

My hands are trembling on the keyboard.

Matt Millen has not worked every day for over 30 years with Sandusky like Paterno did. Also, Sandusky still had an office at the athletic complex and was seen there on a regular business. Remember, he was raping little boys in the locker room AFTER he was retired. Penn State knew something was wrong and so did Paterno.

I hear you WV, and I don't disagree with you.  I still want to hear from JoePa, at a podium, answering questions like:

1.  Why did you not go to the police?
2.  What exactly did the GA tell you?  (Then confirm with the GA).
3.  Why where you standing outside your house laughing and giggling about this?
4.  Don't you understand this story is not about you, it is about the victims?

And some others.  And he better have good answers for all of them.  I'm not talking about prepared statements from a bunch of lawyers either.  If a little more time goes by and he still hasn't done this, that is very telling in my opinion.

Matt Millen said JoePa was arrogant yesterday, and I am starting to see what he is talking about.

Another twist that I saw today was the suggestion that all of this broke right after he got win 409, and perhaps somebody was holding off until he had the record.

Another thing I would like to know, is why was Sandusky not prosecuted for the 1998 incident that supposedly led to his retirement?

There are tons of questions that need to be answered.

You bet. If anything I say it may have been Sandusky fatigue where they are sick of hearing reports about him. "I don't have time for this today" or "Ah,gee. Jerry's back up to it again".   >:( >:( Just take a minute and picture him doing that to one of your children. Sorry to interupt your happy day, JoPa. >:(

The fact that he still had an office there only makes me think that they didn't believe any of this was true.  Think about it.  If they knew this was going on, or even suspected it, would they let him have an office there?  He must have fooled them all.  Pedophiles are good at that.

All I am saying is that the story that is being reported does not add up.  There is more to this.  There are details that we don't know yet.

At age 84, I really believe Paterno is not all there. The fact he was going to hold his regular Tuesday press conference to discuss the Nebraska game and stated he would not answer questions about the scandal, shows an incredible lack of understanding of the serious nature of the allegations. He really thought he could blow it off and just talk about
football. He's been in charge and unchallenged for so long, he thinks he's untouchable.

 
 :dunno:

If they did that they need to burn the whole place to the ground.  We also need to hear from this GA who witnessed it first hand.  This nonsense about him being on a recruiting trip is total BS.  He needs to get back to campus.  He is not going to win any recruits, ever again.  Can you imagine this punk showing up at your door to convince you to let your kid come to Penn State?

He seems totally out of touch right now, perhaps even delusional.  This could explain the giggling I guess.

The only comment I want to hear,--that would be acceptable to me, is this:

"An assistant came into my office and kind of told me what was going on. I should have made sure it never happened, on my watch, ever again. I am stepping aside, today, in order to make it perfectly clear,--that this is not acceptable at Penn State University."

Now that he's stepping down, I doubt he'll say anything more.  If asked, he'll snap at the media.  He'll become a hermit.

the video of the interview with  MM http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7207952&categoryid=2564308

I'm furious over the Paterno part of this story. But I'll give it a rest for a second to further SC's point about the GA out on the recruiting trail:

"Hey, nice tush on your kid. Think he'd like to play football at Penn St."

or how about Sandusky first week of TWO-A-DAYS at the Pennsylvania State pen. He'd only have to change a couple of letters on his shirts.

BTW: Paterno retiring at end of season is NOT good enough. NOW-today.

If he looked the other way on this, retiring should not be an option.  He needs to be fired.

I agree, but it ain't going to happen. JoePa has made this university, and my guess is that the BOT up there wants to put him away as quietly as possible instead of making an even bigger media field day by firing him. As bad as it is now, the circus will grow bigger if he is "fired" (though asking him to step down is akin to that anyway).

KNOWN TIMELINE

A chronological look at the case against former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, based on a grand jury report in Pennsylvania state court. Some key dates in Penn State football history are included. Sandusky has been charged with 40 criminal counts, accusing him of serial sex abuse of minors.


1969 — Jerry Sandusky starts his coaching career at Penn State University as a defensive line coach.


1977 — Jerry Sandusky founds The Second Mile. It begins as a group foster home dedicated to helping troubled boys and grows into a charity dedicated to helping children with absent or dysfunctional families.


January 1983 — Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1982 season.


January 1987 — Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1986 season.


1994 — Boy known as Victim 7 in the report meets Sandusky through The Second Mile program at about the age of 10.


1994-95 — Boy known as Victim 6 meets Sandusky at a Second Mile picnic at Spring Creek Park when he is 7 or 8 years old.


1995-96 — Boy known as Victim 5, meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is 7 or 8, in second or third grade.


1996-97 — Boy known as Victim 4, at the age of 12 or 13, meets Sandusky while he is in his second year participating in The Second Mile program.


1996-98 — Victim 5 is taken to the locker rooms and showers at Penn State by Sandusky when he is 8 to 10 years old.


Jan. 1, 1998 — Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1998 Outback Bowl.


1998 — Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.


Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."


Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.


The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.


June 1999 — Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.


Dec. 28, 1999 — Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.


Summer 2000 — Boy known as Victim 3 meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is between seventh and eighth grade.


Fall 2000 — A janitor named James Calhoun observes Sandusky in the showers of the Lasch Football Building with a young boy, known as Victim 8, pinned up against the wall, performing oral sex on the boy. He tells other janitorial staff immediately. Fellow Office of Physical Plant employee Ronald Petrosky cleans the showers at Lasch and sees Sandusky and the boy, who he describes as being between the ages of 11 and 13.


Calhoun tells other physical plant employees what he saw, including Jay Witherite, his immediate supervisor. Witherite tells him to whom he should report the incident. Calhoun was a temporary employee and never makes a report. Victim 8's identity is unknown.


March 1, 2002 — A Penn State graduate assistant enters the locker room at the Lasch Football Building. In the showers, he sees a naked boy, known as Victim 2, whose age he estimates to be 10 years old, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant tells his father immediately.


March 2, 2002 — In the morning, the graduate assistant calls Coach Joe Paterno and goes to Paterno's home, where he reports what he has seen.


March 3, 2002 — Paterno calls Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director to his home the next day and reports a version of what the grad assistant had said.


March 2002 — Later in the month the graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. The grad assistant reports what he has seen and Curley and Schultz say they will look into it.


March 27, 2002 (approximate) — The graduate assistant hears from Curley. He is told that Sandusky's locker room keys are taken away and that the incident has been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant is never questioned by university police and no other entity conducts an investigation until the graduate assistant testifies in Grand Jury in December 2010.


2005-2006 — Boy known as Victim 1 says that meets Sandusky through The Second Mile at age 11 or 12.


Spring 2007 — During the 2007 track season, Sandusky begins spending time with Victim 1 weekly, having him stay overnight at his residence in College Township, Pa.


Spring 2008 — Termination of contact with Victim 1 occurs when he is a freshman in a Clinton County high school. After the boy's mother calls the school to report sexual assault, Sandusky is barred from the school district attended by Victim 1 from that day forward and the matter is reported to authorities as mandated by law.


Early 2009 — An investigation by the Pennsylvania attorney general begins when a Clinton County, Pa. teen boy tells authorities that Sandusky has inappropriately touched him several times over a four-year period.


September 2010 — Sandusky retires from day-to-day involvement with The Second Mile, saying he wants to spend more time with family and handle personal matters.


Nov. 5, 2011 — Sandusky is arrested and released on $100,000 bail after being arraigned on 40 criminal counts.


Nov. 7, 2011 — Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says Paterno is not a target of the investigation into how the school handled the accusations. But she refuses to say the same for university President Graham Spanier. Curley and Schultz, who have stepped down from their positions, surrender on charges that they failed to alert police to complaints against Sandusky.

Joe in the window interview ... wth is this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMZXCwYV7d8

Thanks X. It must have been about this time that I caught an article on the www about Sandusky:

What a narcissistic nincompoop!  Beat Nebraska?  You have got to be kidding me.  Who gives a flying fig about them beating Nebraska?  The whole coaching staff should be fired immediately and the rest of the games this year should be forfeited.  And the building where this shower is located needs to be burned to the ground.

OK, NOW throw that prima donna under the bus WV.  How far are you away from State College?

edit : I guess I should have explained ... this group of supporters are at JP house and he is
speaking to them through his window ...

I thought ya'll might like to see that video Coach  , I found it on a out of the way PSU forum and hadn't seen it anywhere else , namely espn,cbs or the news or any other forum ..
I found it rather strange . they seem to have a different out look about this awful situation .
after looking around and reading in those out of the way places ?
I can see where a cover up would be possible ...    God Bless those kids they are going to need it .
something tells me they are on the verge of getting it rubbed in their face and justice is out of the question .

There is another version, I think the one SC and I saw was of Paterno getting out of a van, beside or in front of his house. Same giggling idiots, different video.

Not too far to State College, SC. Maybe 5 or 6 hours-- but from now on, when we discuss blowing up you know whats, lets use PMs. HTH

Now you're talking! This how out-of-touch things have gotten at Pervert State University.


 :deadhorse:

This whole situation gets sicker and sicker as the days go by. What next, a prostitution/drug ring run out of the library?

 :eyeroll:

LOL-- That's OSU-- you're getting your "inmates running the asylum" investigations confused.

link to live bc at 9 our time http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/index

Thanks for the link.

Has it started yet?  All I am getting are some commercials in the form of a still image slide show.

they must have killed it Coach ... word on twit is JP is out

it is on  !

Now it is showing the ESPN news feed, but no press conference yet.

(http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/444430907.jpg)

JoPA out!

yep JP is gone   

they FIRED HIM and the prez

Tom Bradley as interim head coach.

thats how they roll in crappy valley

Mike McQuery ?

think they will wake JP up tonight or just tell him in the morning when he's had his Geritol ?

 :o

some of the news people acted like they were mad that JP was fired   ???

 :o :o :o

Even at this late hour, the students are not aware of the critical juncture their school finds itself in and how the rest of the nation is judging their every move. I would not be surprised to find people that hate the kids (now adults) for coming forward.  

409 wins.  Joe Paterno's Final Loss: Alabama 27-11, September 10th 2011

1 day before Coach Bryant's birthday.

these students are mixed up they should be marching to Jerry Sandusky's house

Andy Staples does a good job for SI. He said a few minutes ago the kids on campus mostly motivated by "being on TV".

reporting on another forum there is a fire , very bad move students ...

FIREWORKS!!! Are you kidding me?  Those idiots are shooting off fireworks.

>:( >:( >:(

picture from Beaver


(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/11/31223192281.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/544825/8309021)

there goes the tear gas and the hand cuffs  :(

Did ESPN just say the students flipped over a van?

That was Paterno, under OUR bus. :(

A news van!

(http://p.twimg.com/Ad3T5I4CMAIJlwO.jpg:large)

CJP meant a lot to that university. He has done so much for so many years. Be that a lesson that doing the right thing is not only when doing the right thing is convenient.