Crimson Red Sports

I hope there is no fire with this smoke.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--documents--texts-reveal-impermissible-benefits-to-five-sec-players-202513237.html

I remember his twitter account was allegedly hacked about "taking money and being pimped" I am really worried about this one.

Hard to know what to think.  So many reporters are out to get somebody, especially Bama guys, and you are immediately guilty until proven innocent.  Still, you gotta worry.  If DJF turns out to have been in ineligible player... look out.  A lot of folks could get hurt.

It was after his eligibility was done. 

 :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

The report says summer of 2012. I like to believe the NCAA is so F'ed up that nothing will come of this. This is bad timing though.

Not worried.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/f8c3414924d286a0d2d2477388fe165b/tumblr_mqw2jcROjY1rqd0kpo1_400.gif)

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2041483/kramers-hair-on-fire-o.gif)

Okay, seriously.
Alabama did nothing.  If there was anything improper, it was done by people outside the University.
No worries.  Coach Saban will say, "The compliance people are looking into it."
MONTHS from now we'll hear that it was nothing of substance.

I hope your right.

I hope you are right.

I personally know one of the agents listed in the article.

He is a UA double alumnus - undergrad and law school.

He is a pretty smart guy and a big roll tide roller.

I was happy to hear about him becoming an agent b/c I felt like he would not do anything to negatively impact the school or it's players.


The laws need to be changed to where the agents and the players suffer financial/criminal consequences.

If a player. or agent, were financially responsible for the monetary damages suffered by an institution b/c of the agent/players action they would think more before acting.

Something like this:
Oh, player, you got a $25 million dollar contract?

Well, the university lost $100 million in revenue due to sanctions imposed b/c of your actions.

Looks like you still owe the university $75 million.

Oh, agent, you signed $300 million in contracts this year with a 30% take.

We will take the remaining $75 million form your holdings.

Only way to fix it.

I can think of 180,000 reasons why the ncaa will do nothing to Bama.

AD: "Our compliance department was looking into this situation prior to being notified that this story was actually going to be published."

(http://www.hicktownpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/sweepunderrug1.gif)

Rumor has it that the Chargers have suspended Fluker until this is cleared up. :)

Even if the story has legs, the NFL isn't involved.   :dunno:

I was being a little cute with that. From what I've read, some columnist is getting a lot of underserved attention. Bama has known about ALL of this for quite some time. Isn't it strange when they decided to go public with this? ;)

Yes it is. I don't know about y'all, but I have about had it up to here (insert emoticon with water to eyeballs)with the press generally. Now doubt they hope to distract the team in hopes of losing to TAM and derail our chance earning another championship.

Good news is that it won't and we will take TAM to the woodshed. Put that in your computer and write it, press.

Did ya'll read the report?  They claim to have receipts and tons of other evidence to back it up.  And it was not after his eligibility ran out.

They also say that UA had no knowledge of what was going on.  But as far as the NCAA is concerned, does that even matter?

Yeah, everyone blowing this off as nothing are being short-sighted. The reason other investigations went nowhere is due to the lack of evidence. Here we have emails & other evidence which makes this potentially bad for the Tide. Someone on the inside of this circle of these "agents" had to have turned this info over to hurt the SEC.


 :tinfoil:

Free read from Tideports. DJ is cooperating so maybe a lot of this is bs

http://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1548239

Yep, and that someone sure does look like Luther Davis.  Who else would have his bank statements and text messages?

What a shame that a former Tide player is banned from his university & its players. This means his job as a conduit for these agents is over.


 :facepalm:

http://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=885&CID=1548239

What a long, miserable, sleepless night.

 :yawn: :(

Coke Zero?

Yep.  Cherry Coke Zero actually.

Email and phone messages have no credibilty at all. I wonder how they were able to get so the called bank statements?

If this had happened in 2007, we would have gotten the death penalty.

This would be a perfect case for the NCAA to put fear back into everybody after all their keystone cop shenanigans and botch investigations.  All of the evidence, if true, was wrapped up in a neat little package by Yahoo.

If they do nothing, or screw it up, they might as well close their doors.

Maybe Luther provided them.  Was he "disgruntled" about anything?  Is he trying to blackmail the university and "lose" all the evidence before the NCAA comes calling?  I don't know, but I am very concerned about this situation.

I've got some bad news for you, people are sitting in the penitentiary based on phone messages & emails.


 

In today's world, hackers can access anything in the electronic world, email, cell phone, etc. These so-called accusers gather every tidbit of information they can find and throw it out for the world to read whether it's legit or not. They force the person being accused to prove themselves innocent regardless of how legit the info they throw out there is.

(http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bmW3e7qiuPFcHjL71mX8Og--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2013-09-10/48bc304e-6343-4983-9ca3-2ca6f0366e3e_au-dfwesternunion.jpg)

I heard that the guy who wrote the article was on XM radio yesterday and said he wasnt turning over what proof he had to the NCAA, if they want it they can go get it he said.

 :deadhorse:

If Bama has been working on this since before the story broke, that means that if there is anything to it, Bama self reported it. Now I know that didn't help during the textbook scandal, but we're apparently only talking about a couple thousand dollars here.

With the NCAA doing absolutely nothing to schools with much more serious cases, if they slam Bama, not only do I think the NCAA is done, Bama would have grounds for a lawsuit against them. In fact, I think the NCAA is fair game with several schools due to the inconsistency of their rulings.

From what ive seen over the last couple years, the best thing to do is hire good lawyers and shut up. :-*

Especially if the Yahoo guy is not going to give them any of his evidence.

By the way, Yahoo also broke the Reggie Bush story.

Exactly, make them prove all of the accusations. Maybe Bama better hire Auburn's lawters. ;)

Historically when Bama has self-reported and cooperated with the NCAA they've slammed us.  When other schools stonewall they get off with a slap on the wrist if that.  I have a bad feeling about this one.

I'm thinking we might be screwed on this one.

If any of this is true there are several things to consider.

1. The school, coaches and compliance dept did not know anything nor were they trying to hide anything.
2. Luther Davis, a former player, will not be considered a booster. He is a conduit for a sports agent who funneled money to players from schools besides Alabama which is proof he was out for himself and not to give Alabama an advantage. IMO it helps that other schools are involved.
3. If the alledged documents are not turned over to the NCAA they will have a difficult time obtaining the documents legally.
4. Luther Davis was used as a "runner" to try and avoid stiff penalties for sports agent interference in Alabama and Mississippi.

If this is an isolated event, Alabama coaches or institution did not know, we are okay if the ncaa determines we could not have known. This is only embarrassing. I suspect this will be the case.

I hope so.  But the school didn't know anything about the textbook scheme either and self reported it to the NCAA as soon as they figured out what happened.  Look how that turned out.  We are well within the 5 year repeat violator window since we only came off probation last summer.  If an embattled NCAA wanted to re-establish itself and regain credibility, this would be the perfect case to do it with.

Some of the alleged documents are publicly available on the internet, like the western union receipt I posted.

I disagree with this. The NCAA will come off looking like they are picking on Alabama after all the weak rulings they have levied on other schools for worse offenses. They aren't the powerful organization they used to be. Having said that, they are smart enough, however, to realize how a damaging ruling would be perceived in the college sports world, and the liability it would open up for the lawsuit that I posted about earlier.

I don't think we're in any danger of losing scholarships or receiving a bowl ban.  This appears to be an isolated incident and since Saban arrived things have been run cleanly. 

It's very possible the NCAA will vacate wins, including the championships, and place us back on probation.

The text book issue is very different IMO. The school (probably student workers) issued the books to players. This happened with hundreds of players across several sports. The NCAA deemed the school did know or should have known this was happening. It would be hard to argue that was an isolated case and the school, who issued the books, did not know.

I am guessing the documents on the internet are copies that would have to be proven real. I could easily fake a Western Union receipt and post it on the internet. Just because it is on the internet does not make it real. That is where we use the barn defense of deny, deny, deny and make them prove it.

I think we will take the high road and tell the truth. This was an isolated case of an agent taking advantage of a student athlete without the school or coaches knowledge.

That is assuming we fight back.  Last time we just laid down and let them roll over us.  The whole textbook case really opened my eyes to how they work.  I never expected anything serious to happen with that.  Clearly the university operated with integrity in that case and did absolutely nothing wrong.  Even what the students did wrong wasn't that bad.  Yet they almost gave us the death penalty.

One thing I do agree with is that the NCAA is much different now.  Perhaps that very case where they overreached so far is what caused the pendulum to begin swinging back to the other side where it is now.

Short version:
If Ed Stinson plays against A&M, we have nothing to worry about.  
If he sits, we're going to self-impose the penalties.  :unsure:

 :popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2:

(http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/width620/img/alabamafootball_impact/photo/13341221-mmmain.jpg)
Yes, he played against VT.

in the text book case they hammered us why ?

because we should have known ...  :wall:
we didn't but we should have right ?

I think we should treat the ncaa like CNS does the reporters at a presser
stonewall their azz and in general be a beach to deal with

 :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

I plan to watch that closely myself.  If he sits, we are definitely in trouble.  If he plays, we may or may not be in trouble.  He was named in the report as being on an itinerary for a plane ticket, but he did not actually attend the meeting and presumably did not accept the ticket.  CNS did say that it does not involve any current players, so I fully expect him to play.

I believe Ed Stinson plays   :unsure:

Exactly.  If this happened in 2007 we would have gotten the death penalty, even though we did not know and did nothing wrong.  However, in 2013 I have no idea what will happen.

 :popcorn2:

This is nothing like the textbook case. The Textbook case involved 201 athletes in 16 sports. The books were issued by the school. How can you say the school (not coaches but school) should not have known. Forget that it was small money, all athletes paid back the money, we self reported, keep players out of games and offered a reasonable scholarship reduction.

They threatened the death penalty on the football team, right?  Not the other 16 sports.  Or were they threatening to shut down all sports? The football team only had a few players involved and they sat out for the UT game that week when the news broke.

The school issued the books to the players, but the school was counting on the players to be honest about which books they needed.  When I was in school, I had a similar scholarship benefit that provided all of my books and tuition (not athletic).  I went into the Supe Store in the basement of Ferguson, gathered up all the books I needed (always picking new books of course, not used), then carried them up to the counter.  I told them I got free books with my scholarship, they looked at my student ID, then looked at the list on a clipboard and found my name.  Then they wrote down all the books I got so they could do their accounting paperwork.  It never once occurred to me how easy it would be to grab a couple of books for a class I wasn't taking and then give them to a friend or sell them to get some money to go out to eat with.  Of course I wouldn't have done it, but I didn't even realize that I could do it.  In fact, I never did sell back any of my books.  I still have them all to this day.

Before this happened, it never crossed anyone's mind that they would need to put some sort of security measures in place to keep students from stealing text books.  They checked to make sure the student was on some sort of scholarship, but they didn't check to see if the book they were getting was for a class they were enrolled in.  Or if they had already gotten that book before.

They wrote down the books they gave out, but didn't realize what happened until they did an internal audit and saw multiple books to the same student, and eventually, when they dug deeper, books for classes the student didn't even take.  So the university did not know at the time it happened, but then during the course of going through the paper work they found out and reported it immediately.  I disagree that the university should have known or found out earlier than they did, when they did in fact figure it out on their own and report it.  They could have easily kept that to themselves and no one would have ever known that it happened.  That is exactly what certain other schools would have done.

Now, if it happened again this year, then yes, the university should have known better.  But in 2007 no one really ever heard of this scam.

Good insights, SC. 
I remember those days too, back in the early 1970s, when the Bookstore was lax in handling scholarship, grant, or Pell Grant issues with books.  I doubt it's at all lax today.

Keep in mind that the Bookstore gets paid for every book.  Not saying they were taking advantage,   :lol2:  but they stand to gain $$ when an athlete gets more books than he/she should get.

Bottom line on this issue re Fluker:
Alabama has been on top of it since DJ's crazy tweet about being paid.  Apparently the issue blew up last month when Yahoo starting asking questions.  DJ has cooperated. 
None of the University personnel knew about or participated in $$ changing hands.  It was done on the sly.
Expect DJ to lose his access to Alabama, if he's indeed guilty.  Beyond that, there isn't much to be done to correct anything.  There was nothing that anyone employed by Alabama did wrong.
I know the NCAA punished schools for such 'failures to control' during past years, but now they aren't looking for such.  I'm confident we'll be okay, even if it's a bumpy road in the meantime.

Roll Tide

I agree.

Until the NFL decides to punish agents for approaching high profile college players this is going to happen and the schools can not stop it regardless of how well they educate the players.

Hmmm... I just thought of a plausible scenario that might be awesome if it works out that way.  I was just watching ESPN, and they were talking about how nobody has called out these sleazy agent guys like CNS.  They mentioned the time he even called them pimps.  Remember DJ's tweet last April? "Agents was tryin to pimp me so I pimped them".

Could it be possible... do we dare even think that DJ and Luther could have set these fellows up?

Is delusional one of the stages of grief?

In any case, the fact that CNS has been so vocal about these sleaze ball agents should mitigate any punishment we get from the NCAA.  He can say "I told you so, and there was nothing we could do about it."  And I have no doubt that the university has done everything they could to educate these players.

:popcorn2:

I'm feeling much better about this now.  The media is pointing out that nobody has been on top of this like CNS.  We would should come through this OK, given the current NCAA landscape, even if DJ broke the rules.

:lol:

That is probably what triggered the audit in the first place.  "The bill from the Supe Store for scholarship books has gone through the roof in the last couple of years.  What is going on over there?"

Then they do the audit only to find out that some of the athletes were caught up in it too.  Doh!  :-[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZJsPCZbPXc

From 2010.

:popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2:

(http://l.yimg.com/os/en/blogs/sptusncaafexperts/flukerweet.jpg)

I knew a guy on scholarship who got new books every semester and then would sell them back.  I think it was an ROTC scholarship even.  I didn't think much of it at the time, he thought it was part of the deal. 

I always bought used books if I could find them, and I never kept them if I could sell them back -- which became less frequent because the publishers figured out they should come up with a new edition every year or two.

Getting books for classes you aren't taking -- some people will scam the system if given a chance.

SC, you're not one of those folks who believes that the O-line failed against VT on purpose, are you?

 :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Right now, I'm just thankful that there is Oklahoma State out there.

... and Miami, and North Carolina, and Oregon, and Stanford (oops).

Stanford?  :popcorn2:

Don't burst my crimson bubble.

:lol:

Regardless, I do feel much better about this.  If the NCAA comes after us over this, CNS will drop kick them in the head.  There isn't anything else he could have done to prevent it.

Good video clip by Trevor Matich:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9664888

Listening to Finebaum??

Guest after guest of 'folks who know the NCAA' are saying, NOTHING WILL COME OF THIS.

The rules for amateur athletics are woefully outdated.  Listen if you can.  Good stuff, and you'll sleep better tonight (SC -  :lol2: ).

Are these intelligent people or the call in clowns?  :lol:

No, these are sportswriters and investigative reporters.  Nobody thinks it's anything since the agents did it all without the University knowing it.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvb840I7ym1r60j6fo1_500.gif)

Are you saying that Jim from Tuscaloosa, Tammy, Phyllis from Mulga, Darryl from Columbus, & I-Man are clowns?



 #-

Yes.  If the shoe fits...

(http://www.exotic-footwear.ru/big_jpg/clown.jpg)

This is a totally different situation than Reggie Bush and USC.  USC was paying Bush to play and the coaching staff was in on it.

No, I wouldn't insult clowns that way.

This posted over at WA:


He goes on to say TIFWIW. I would agree with that.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vAiSoIkT5gA/TysLtvoxmlI/AAAAAAAAFHg/AkzJDiwSBUo/s1600/tumblr_lasj24jQWe1qe0eclo1_500.gif)

Wake me if anything happens.

That is an awful deep conspiracy theory & why would Davis do it? What would he have to gain?



 ???

The answer? Well it's as plain as the whiskers on their faces.

(http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2008/10/large_PatDyeAubie.jpg)

John Phillips:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/13/2e8uvysa.jpg)

Luther Davis must have in in for Miss St and Tenn too.

Who posted it, Kingpin?  :lol:

Don't be too hard on him before we know the story.
Nobody would want to be the Judas. 

My poor attempt at sarcasm. If LD wanted to frame Alabama why is Miss St and Tenn involved?

I'm telling you, it was a setup by CNS, DJ, Luther, and Phillips.  They are planning to send a message and put some of these sleaze balls in jail.  Phillips has a law degree from UA and worked as an agent.  He knows what kind of evidence they need.  Then those jerks won't be sniffing around UA any more because they will never know if we are setting them up.

#+

I'll give you an e-cred for creativity (and to help you sleep).   :lol2:

I'm in my happy place.  I trust Kingpin.

I actually feel a little better, myself.  :)

If true that the documents were forged, perhaps Davis was supposed to be funneling the money to players but was keeping it for himself?  Maybe he created the documents to trick the financiers into thinking he was working towards getting Fluker, who was guaranteed to be a high draft pick, to sign with them? 

All speculation at this point.  Hopefully the truth comes to light soon.

:tinfoil:

Could it be any more weird than that??   :lol2:

Obfuscation  :popcorn2:

Yes.  :-[

Just heard on Sirius that Maurice Smith from TN. Tweeted an apology to its fan base apparently for his part in this mess.

This is becoming more alarming.  :wall: :wall:

Barrett Jones was on 99.1 radio just now talking about this.

Barrett said the compliance people and Coach Saban have done everything possible to educate players about agents, even saying that players can come by his office at any time and he'd call any Head Coach in the NFL to discuss draft status.

Barrett concluded that 'no way Alabama is in trouble for this; if true, it's on DJ.'  But he remains unconvinced.

Hadn't heard that. Thanks for sharing. I sure hope Barrett is right. It's all just worrisome.

http://www.wsbtv.com/feed/sports/update-on-dj-fluker-and-ncaa-infractions/fWBMG/

More inside info.  Looking better...

That is positive. Ok, time to go focus on "The Process" of whipping JF and his bunch.

FWIW, Finebaum has been on the air for 20 minutes, and he has talked about NOTHING except the game.  He has not mentioned the DJ Fluker fiasco.

That's good news.  I think if he had any inside info, he'd have said it right away.

 :yawn:

I haven't seen much coverage of it on ESPN either this week.  I think it is a non issue as far as the university is concerned.

Finebaum and several guest callers talked about the issue at length on Thursday. Everyone is kinda burned out on the whole NCAA scandal machine, including the NCAA. There are too many rules, disparate treatment occurs, everyone does it, and the NCAA needs to change its archaic rules & stop living in the 1970's. All the guests (sportswriters) said they had changed their attitude about many things over the years and felt like if a player can make money with autographs, jerseys, their image, then more power to them. They also think the O'Bannion case will rock the NCAA over these very issues.


 :popcorn2:

The Fluker mess is stalling in the media. Yesterday things started to look good for us. Today everything is about the game. The coaches and compliance people have know about this since April. It is only a distraction to us fans.

I remember Kuiyam and Jesse talking about Saban discussing with them that when the time was right, he would help Jesse make a decision about choosing an agent. You know if he did that for Jesse, he would do that for anyone on the team. To me, this shows that CNS is committed to doing all of this the right way.

That actually took place one time when Jamos, Kuiyam and I were meeting to play golf. Kuiyam and Jesse actually met with CNS and he totally helped them through the process, THE RIGHT WAY. I don't think I am betraying any confidences here, because it already took place and was DONE THE RIGHT WAY.

Saban is a very proactive coach when it comes to compliance. He has demonstrated that time and time again. There is nothing being swept under the rug with the current Bama regime. The compliance dept. and Bill Battle have been out front on this since information has been brought to their attention.

Saban called out agents 2 years ago and made his stand on what needs to be done with them.

I don't see the NCAA taking Bama to task on this as they have in the past. Bama, Battle and CNS have been totally above board on this.

And it certainly helps that the State of Alabama has enacted laws to deal with improper agent activity to go along with improper action with the athlete, as well.

I do not see this ending badly.

 

I see this ending quietly.   :unsure:

Front page material right there.  #+

Well said 2, I remember all this. #+

If there was ever a coach in football, College and NFL, that stands for doing things the right way, it is CNS. This man does not waiver from his ethical or personal decisions in doing the right things the right way. Maybe since this has happened, the NCAA and the lawmakers in all states will look and assess the damage that these so called agents have done and are doing to wreck the lives of these young men and act accordingly with some legislation to end all of it.  

That is a lesson that I took away from Kuiyam and Jesse that I will never forget. That Coach Saban is a man of great character, despite what other fans think of him. We are very honored to have him, not only as our head coach, but as the Captain of our program.

 :toast4: