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Author Topic: Coach Anthony Grant & Tide Basketball  (Read 28255 times)
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« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2015, 09:22:35 AM »

Every coach starts somewhere. The best coaches in the college game were assistants at one time. Most of them started at a small mid major school before being hired as a power conference school head coach. They don't all turn out to be good hires. CAG is just one example. Two more failures that come to mind are Jeff Lebo and Tony Barbee at the barn. Both of those guys looked like solid hires but did far worse than CAG. Hiring any coach is a risk. I am not saying we should not pursue a home run hire because we should. I am saying a home run hire is a long shot and our best option may be a mid major guy like Archie Miller at Dayton or someone similar to him at that level.

McBaman nailed it on the skill set we need for the next head coach. I would add that the next head coach needs to promote our program. Nothing fills seats like winning but creating a better game day experience would help too. The new coach needs to get out and do speaking engagements and radio interviews and get people interested. We are die hards  on this board. We love everything Alabama. The average Bama fan only cares about football. That needs to change. We have a fantastic gymnastics program but they should not be out drawing our men's basketball team.

Cliff Ellis is coaching at Coastal Carolina.

MD will complain that he is too old.





Do you think a 69 year old coach is good for the future of the program? Don't you want someone who might be around 15 years & get the program rolling at a high level? Nameone program that ever started with a 69 year old coach to build for the future. Plus, Ellis has left 2 programs in deep trouble after he left, Clemson & Auburn.


 Dog

I will see your two land-grant institutions and raise you a Bobby Cremins. 

He is 68.

I think a 60-something year old coach could provide valuable service for 5 - 7 years while looking for, or possibly having him develop, the next 15 year coaching candidate.



Bobby Cremins has not coached in 2 years. He had to leave due to exhaustion & possibly Parkinson's. His last stop was the mighty College of Charleston and he became their coach at age 59, not 69. You don't pay a coach millions of dollars to develop a future coach, you pay him to win. If Cremins was such a hot coach, how come nobody else wanted him, answer, because he was too old. Also, do you equate the College of Charleston on the same level as Alabama & the SEC? Just wondering.


 Dog


Pardon my regression, but Cliff Ellis, with Coastal Carolina, has been to the NCAA Tournament more recently than Grant and has been to the NIT as many times as Grant in almost as many years.


Nobody is arguing that coaches are paid to win.

Interesting that you seem to see no value in experience.

Coach K is 67 by the way. 

You wouldn't want him to coach at Alabama b/c he is too old?  Right?

Coach K took a leave from dook due to exhaustion.

Saying that coaches are not paid to develop future coaches is silly and factually incorrect.

You do not think Roy Williams is grooming Hubert Davis to take over at UNC?

Where did Roy learn to coach?  Oh yeah, as an assistant to Dean.

Coack K?  Oh yeah, as an assistant to Knight.

I am sure Coach Bryant learned nothing about coaching from Frank Thomas. 

Mentoring plays a critical role in multi-billion dollar international corporations for creating future leadership candidates and has been doing the same for college athletics since the beginning of college athletics.

They are called assistant coaches for a reason.

Of course CofC is not Alabama,

Since you brought up "hot shot coaches", correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't CAG a "hot shot coach" from a "mid-level conference" when Alabama hired him 6 years ago?

Sometimes a flash in the pan is just that.

 
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« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2015, 10:24:02 AM »

A few coaching names to consider.

Archie Miller - Dayton: A good young up and coming coach. If I were on the search committee he would be high on my list to interview.

Ben Howland- Unemployed: Last coached UCLA in 12-13 season. Age 57. Fired at UCLA after 10 years going 25-10 in his last year with a first round loss in NCAA. His team finish 24th in the final AP poll. He had 5 seasons at UCLA with 25 wins or more. Three seasons with 30 wins or more (32, 30, 35). He was very successful at Pitt before taking the UCLA job. I am shocked he is out of work.

Mike White - LA Tech: 37 years old. Very young and inexperienced. Played at Ole Miss. Assistant at Jacksonville State and Ole Miss being getting the LA Tech job. He is 91-36 in four years at the C-USA school. 43-14 in conference play. He could be the next shining star or in over his head in the SEC.

If I were on the search committee I would contact Mark Few, Greg Marshall, Brad Stevens and some other home run hires just to gauge their interest if any. They are long shots but you have to at least try.




Excellent info & I agree, check all those coaches & their interest in coming to Alabama. Plus, Brad Stevens is having a miserable year at the Boston Celtics, he might be missing the college game. Howland has me mystified. Here is more info on him.


Quote
[On the other hand, common sense suggested Howland should've also been more seriously involved at Marquette, Tennessee and Missouri given that he's quite literally one of college basketball's most accomplished coaches of the past decade, which means common sense has been abandoned, on some level, this offseason, and it's difficult to conclude anything other than that Howland has a serious public relations problem that's inexplicably soured his reputation.
Quote



Quote
But, again, Howland's final recruiting class was one of the nation's best, and his final season was spent playing faster than any other Pac-12 school while winning the Pac-12's regular-season championship. Additionally, it should be noted, that three of Howland's recruits (Jordan Adams, Kyle Anderson, Norman Powell) were the three leading scorers on the UCLA team that Steve Alford just took to the Sweet 16.


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« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2015, 10:44:26 AM »

Every coach starts somewhere. The best coaches in the college game were assistants at one time. Most of them started at a small mid major school before being hired as a power conference school head coach. They don't all turn out to be good hires. CAG is just one example. Two more failures that come to mind are Jeff Lebo and Tony Barbee at the barn. Both of those guys looked like solid hires but did far worse than CAG. Hiring any coach is a risk. I am not saying we should not pursue a home run hire because we should. I am saying a home run hire is a long shot and our best option may be a mid major guy like Archie Miller at Dayton or someone similar to him at that level.

McBaman nailed it on the skill set we need for the next head coach. I would add that the next head coach needs to promote our program. Nothing fills seats like winning but creating a better game day experience would help too. The new coach needs to get out and do speaking engagements and radio interviews and get people interested. We are die hards  on this board. We love everything Alabama. The average Bama fan only cares about football. That needs to change. We have a fantastic gymnastics program but they should not be out drawing our men's basketball team.

Cliff Ellis is coaching at Coastal Carolina.

MD will complain that he is too old.





Do you think a 69 year old coach is good for the future of the program? Don't you want someone who might be around 15 years & get the program rolling at a high level? Nameone program that ever started with a 69 year old coach to build for the future. Plus, Ellis has left 2 programs in deep trouble after he left, Clemson & Auburn.


 Dog

I will see your two land-grant institutions and raise you a Bobby Cremins. 

He is 68.

I think a 60-something year old coach could provide valuable service for 5 - 7 years while looking for, or possibly having him develop, the next 15 year coaching candidate.



Bobby Cremins has not coached in 2 years. He had to leave due to exhaustion & possibly Parkinson's. His last stop was the mighty College of Charleston and he became their coach at age 59, not 69. You don't pay a coach millions of dollars to develop a future coach, you pay him to win. If Cremins was such a hot coach, how come nobody else wanted him, answer, because he was too old. Also, do you equate the College of Charleston on the same level as Alabama & the SEC? Just wondering.


 Dog


Pardon my regression, but Cliff Ellis, with Coastal Carolina, has been to the NCAA Tournament more recently than Grant and has been to the NIT as many times as Grant in almost as many years.


Nobody is arguing that coaches are paid to win.

Interesting that you seem to see no value in experience.

Coach K is 67 by the way. 

You wouldn't want him to coach at Alabama b/c he is too old?  Right?

Coach K took a leave from dook due to exhaustion.

Saying that coaches are not paid to develop future coaches is silly and factually incorrect.

You do not think Roy Williams is grooming Hubert Davis to take over at UNC?

Where did Roy learn to coach?  Oh yeah, as an assistant to Dean.

Coack K?  Oh yeah, as an assistant to Knight.

I am sure Coach Bryant learned nothing about coaching from Frank Thomas. 

Mentoring plays a critical role in multi-billion dollar international corporations for creating future leadership candidates and has been doing the same for college athletics since the beginning of college athletics.

They are called assistant coaches for a reason.

Of course CofC is not Alabama,

Since you brought up "hot shot coaches", correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't CAG a "hot shot coach" from a "mid-level conference" when Alabama hired him 6 years ago?

Sometimes a flash in the pan is just that.

 




You're missing the point. You do not hire a head coach & pay him millions to groom his replacement. Roy Williams returned to North Carolina after two previously "groomed" coaches failed & Williams proved himself a big winner at Kansas. Most assistant coaches fail as head coaches in sports: see Will Muschamp, Bill Oliver, Derrick Dooley, Mike Dumbose, Matt Doherty (UNC), David Hobbs ("groomed" by Wimp Sanderson), & so on. Plus, Coach K turns 68 in less than 2 weeks. Too old to be the future of our program. I want someone who can be with our program for the next 15 years or more. There's a reason NO ONE except small programs hire a coach over 60 years old & I am not impressed in with a team going to the NCAA Tourney, then losing in the first round. Coach Grant was hot, but now he is cold as ice. He will probably end up as head coach of College of Charleston someday.





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« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2015, 09:27:04 AM »

You're missing the point.

No, I see your point.  I just do not think it is a one or the other situation.  I think there are positives and negatives to both sides and it ultimately comes down to the candidate that is able to provide the most benefit to the program.  Since Wimp the program is basically running on a 5 year coaching cycle, so I see the baseline requirement for a coach as being 5 years of serviceability.

Like I said, I think Alabama needs to hire a former pro-coach.

You do not hire a head coach & pay him millions to groom his replacement.

You are the one who said "groomed", I said "develop", and that could mean mentoring for a few years or acting as interim coach while assisting with the search process.  Sure it doesn't always work out, but hiring a "hot shot coach" from a mid-level conference does not always work out either.  I think this discussion is proof of that. I would go so far as to say that a much higher level of success can be attributed to mentoring type situations than purchasing the latest hot item at a peak price.

Roy Williams returned to North Carolina after two previously "groomed" coaches failed & Williams proved himself a big winner at Kansas.

You are missing the point.  Roy learned to coach from another coach.

Guthridge went 80 - 28 in 3 years before retiring at 65.  He was forced into the position b/c Smith retired without warning.

Most assistant coaches fail as head coaches in sports:

That is simply not true, and you know it.

Name me one coach who was never an assistant coach that achieved any level of success.  I do not think you can do it.

see Will Muschamp, Bill Oliver, Derrick Dooley, Mike Dumbose, Matt Doherty (UNC), David Hobbs ("groomed" by Wimp Sanderson), & so on.

Lots of people clearly not qualified to be head coaches on that list.

-Dumbose was a people's choice fax campaign and never should have been hired.
-Hobbs probably had to start coaching a little too early due to Wimp being Wimp.
-Doherty basically had a mutiny on his hands b/c he was requiring a bunch of  prima donnas to show up for practice and actually practice.

Plus, Coach K turns 68 in less than 2 weeks. Too old to be the future of our program.
I can hear it now:

K: Hey, MD I am tired of being around all of these yankees at dook.  I am going to move to the sunny deep south and coach BAMA for 5 years or so and help them find a good replacement to captain the ship once I get it on course.

MD:That's alright K, you are too old to provide the program with any benefit and any assistant you bring in is doomed to fail.

I want someone who can be with our program for the next 15 years or more.
That would be my preference as well, but that may not be a realistic possibility at the moment.

I am not impressed in with a team going to the NCAA Tourney, then losing in the first round.
Nor am I, just comparing and contrasting two coaches, one at a state flagship institution in the most highly visible conference in the country, and the other at what basically amounts to a glorified junior college (a good one, but still) and the similarity of the results between the two. 

In that situation who has the hardest job of recruiting, the lesser of the facilities, and is truly doing more with less?


He will probably end up as head coach of College of Charleston someday.
Good stuff right there.
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« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2015, 01:42:42 PM »

I saw some really good names listed on page 4. You have to think that out of all those names there would be 2 or 3 that would love to come to a tradition filled school like U of A and build their own team. Just a thought I had and what do yall think? RTR!
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« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2015, 05:45:02 PM »

 I've been doing some searching as some of you have for possible coaches if Bama does make a change but I've been looking at coaches that I think Bama would have a realistic chance of getting. There's one I have in mind, Ben Jacobsen at the University of Northern Iowa. I have seen Northern Iowa play before, they beat the University of Iowa at Iowa City when I was on a trip up there. If you look at their record this year you might be surprised, they beat Wichita State this past weekend for one thing.

Jacobsen has been a solid coach during his career at NI and some consider him to be one of if not the best defensive coach in the country. He is averaging 20.8 wins a year at NI and they play a solid schedule.

I like the idea of him coming to Bama and bringing some of that basketball talent in the Midwest to Tuscaloosa.

Click here for link
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« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2015, 06:10:29 PM »

I've been doing some searching as some of you have for possible coaches if Bama does make a change but I've been looking at coaches that I think Bama would have a realistic chance of getting. There's one I have in mind, Ben Jacobsen at the University of Northern Iowa. I have seen Northern Iowa play before, they beat the University of Iowa at Iowa City when I was on a trip up there. If you look at their record this year you might be surprised, they beat Wichita State this past weekend for one thing.

Jacobsen has been a solid coach during his career at NI and some consider him to be one of if not the best defensive coach in the country. He is averaging 20.8 wins a year at NI and they play a solid schedule.

I like the idea of him coming to Bama and bringing some of that basketball talent in the Midwest to Tuscaloosa.

Click here for link



Yep. Earlier in this thread I mentioned Northern Iowa as place to look at for a replacement. Here are the others:


Quote
Right now, I have not researched coaches who may be available. Teams I would look at include Dayton (Archie Miller), Xavier, Northern Iowa, Murray St., Wofford, & others. Besides Coach Miller, I don't know much about the other coaches.


Thanks for info on the coach. I think we can get a quality coach this time (I hope).


 
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« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2015, 09:03:56 AM »

I've been doing some searching as some of you have for possible coaches if Bama does make a change but I've been looking at coaches that I think Bama would have a realistic chance of getting. There's one I have in mind, Ben Jacobsen at the University of Northern Iowa. I have seen Northern Iowa play before, they beat the University of Iowa at Iowa City when I was on a trip up there. If you look at their record this year you might be surprised, they beat Wichita State this past weekend for one thing.

Jacobsen has been a solid coach during his career at NI and some consider him to be one of if not the best defensive coach in the country. He is averaging 20.8 wins a year at NI and they play a solid schedule.

I like the idea of him coming to Bama and bringing some of that basketball talent in the Midwest to Tuscaloosa.

Click here for link

I think he is a good coach. His name is mentioned often as a potential replacement of hot seat coaches. I listed three coaches Archie Miller, Mike While and Ben Howland in a recent thread. If I had listed a fourth it would have been Ben Jacobsen.
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« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2015, 10:14:02 AM »

Do you think CAG ever reads any of the boards? RTR!
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« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2015, 10:46:00 AM »

Do you think CAG ever reads any of the boards? RTR!
I don't think he reads this one.  If he did I really believe he would show a lot more emotion than he currently does...
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« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2015, 11:09:50 AM »

Do you think CAG ever reads any of the boards? RTR!
I don't think he reads this one.  If he did I really believe he would show a lot more emotion than he currently does...

Then, he prolly doesn't read any of them. Most of the others are a lot worse than this. 
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« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2015, 06:26:52 PM »

I've been doing some searching as some of you have for possible coaches if Bama does make a change but I've been looking at coaches that I think Bama would have a realistic chance of getting. There's one I have in mind, Ben Jacobsen at the University of Northern Iowa. I have seen Northern Iowa play before, they beat the University of Iowa at Iowa City when I was on a trip up there. If you look at their record this year you might be surprised, they beat Wichita State this past weekend for one thing.

Jacobsen has been a solid coach during his career at NI and some consider him to be one of if not the best defensive coach in the country. He is averaging 20.8 wins a year at NI and they play a solid schedule.

I like the idea of him coming to Bama and bringing some of that basketball talent in the Midwest to Tuscaloosa.

Click here for link

I think he is a good coach. His name is mentioned often as a potential replacement of hot seat coaches. I listed three coaches Archie Miller, Mike While and Ben Howland in a recent thread. If I had listed a fourth it would have been Ben Jacobsen.

In reading his Bio and how he built the NI team to what it is today, it told me that is exactly what Bama needs in a coach. I don't know if he would be interested in leaving NI but I would like to think he would like to have the chance to move a major college with a huge sports program. Today, Alabama is a great opportunity for any coach that knows how to build a team. I have no idea of what his salary is but I don't think it would even come close to what the lowest salary in the SEC is. I'm telling all of you, there is money on the table to get this basketball program where it needs to be so hopefully Bill Battle is ready to knock on some doors and make a good hire. 
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« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2015, 07:49:11 PM »

I saw something today on a Coach Herb Magee with Philadelphia university that was going for his 1000th win. I wonder if he would be a good coach for the SEC? RTR!

I found this after this post.
Click here for link
RTR!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 07:51:03 PM by ricky023 » Logged

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« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2015, 08:13:56 PM »

I saw something today on a Coach Herb Magee with Philadelphia university that was going for his 1000th win. I wonder if he would be a good coach for the SEC? RTR!

I found this after this post.
Click here for link
RTR!




He's 73 years old so roll tide roll will love him as our coach & will want to give him a 10 year contract.



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« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2015, 10:04:11 PM »

I saw something today on a Coach Herb Magee with Philadelphia university that was going for his 1000th win. I wonder if he would be a good coach for the SEC? RTR!

I found this after this post.
Click here for link
RTR!




He's 73 years old so roll tide roll will love him as our coach & will want to give him a 10 year contract.






Well you are right he probably is too old but I was also thinking about him being a winner at a small school like that. If that might be a place we could also look for a coach. RTR!
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