Jameis Winston (updated; DNA matches JW!!)

[Chechem]

I think there are two charges in this case, sexual assault and the attempt of the TPD to cover up the case. If the TPD issue is investigated then it will be interesting as to who at FSU was responsible for that and how much evidence may have been destroyed back then and possibly now.

You can bet that it will be a stretch that anything will come out of this as is most cases involving athletes and crime.

Exactly, J.  Here:

1. If the DNA didn't match JW, his lawyer would have said it;
2. If it does match, and FSU covered it, coaches and/or administrators will be canned.  Several people said, "Why would FSU cover it; JW wasn't even a starter last December."  Because they knew he'd simply transfer if arrested and dismissed from the team or punished by being benched.
3. If the DNA matches, JW is DONE at FSU.  
4. His Heisman run is already over, unless (by some miracle) he is cleared of all charges and the woman announces that she was entirely wrong (case of misidentification).  The DNA IS THE KEY!  Even if JW is 'not found guilty', his Heisman chances are over (UNLESS HE IS CLEARED).  Being a freshman is already a strike against him (reference JFF).
5. By mid-December we'll know.  We may face FSU without him (and their backup is gone).

[Jamos]

I question the character of Winston after reading where students at Hueytown High School stated that he had his way there and school officials turned their heads when he was involved in anything.

I also question why Bama did not put a big push on his recruitment. I know he wanted to play baseball as well as football and some said that was the reason for not pushing his recruitment at Bama but I now wonder if his character in high school may not have been the big problem. Kirby Smart has stated many times that the character of a recruit weighs very heavy in how bad Bama wants him. I know there have been some players that Bama has signed in  the past that had some bad issues when they were in high school but this Winston recruitment has always puzzled me.

[2Stater]

I think there are two charges in this case, sexual assault and the attempt of the TPD to cover up the case. If the TPD issue is investigated then it will be interesting as to who at FSU was responsible for that and how much evidence may have been destroyed back then and possibly now.

You can bet that it will be a stretch that anything will come out of this as is most cases involving athletes and crime.

Exactly, J.  Here:

1. If the DNA didn't match JW, his lawyer would have said it;
2. If it does match, and FSU covered it, coaches and/or administrators will be canned.  Several people said, "Why would FSU cover it; JW wasn't even a starter last December."  Because they knew he'd simply transfer if arrested and dismissed from the team or punished by being benched.
3. If the DNA matches, JW is DONE at FSU.  
4. His Heisman run is already over, unless (by some miracle) he is cleared of all charges and the woman announces that she was entirely wrong (case of misidentification).  The DNA IS THE KEY!  Even if JW is 'not found guilty', his Heisman chances are over (UNLESS HE IS CLEARED).  Being a freshman is already a strike against him (reference JFF).
5. By mid-December we'll know.  We may face FSU without him (and their backup is gone).

If there is a DNA match, then Winston is just plain stupid for denying it. And I'm guessing he is denying it since he's come up with an apparent alibi. The alibi won't hold up if the DNA matches.

In my old law enforcement experience, I have seen girls accuse boys of rape when what really happened was, it was consensual sex, and the girl either felt guilty afterward, or parents/boyfriend found out and they cried rape. Not saying that is what happened here, but if it was, and JW did, he would have been much better off manning up and telling the truth....if he had done that from the beginning. If he changes his mind after the DNA discovery (if his) and then says it was consensual, he will be perceived as a liar and is toast, for sure.

 

[pmull]

I question the character of Winston after reading where students at Hueytown High School stated that he had his way there and school officials turned their heads when he was involved in anything.

I also question why Bama did not put a big push on his recruitment. I know he wanted to play baseball as well as football and some said that was the reason for not pushing his recruitment at Bama but I now wonder if his character in high school may not have been the big problem. Kirby Smart has stated many times that the character of a recruit weighs very heavy in how bad Bama wants him. I know there have been some players that Bama has signed in  the past that had some bad issues when they were in high school but this Winston recruitment has always puzzled me.

I did not know he had character issues at Hueytown. FSU was bragging early this year about what a good kid he is. They even made comments about his character being much better than Manziel. Those comments seem odd knowing what we know now.

I thought the reason we backed off recruiting him was we expected him to choose MLB over college. 

[Catch Prothro]

I think there are two charges in this case, sexual assault and the attempt of the TPD to cover up the case. If the TPD issue is investigated then it will be interesting as to who at FSU was responsible for that and how much evidence may have been destroyed back then and possibly now.

You can bet that it will be a stretch that anything will come out of this as is most cases involving athletes and crime.

Exactly, J.  Here:

1. If the DNA didn't match JW, his lawyer would have said it;
2. If it does match, and FSU covered it, coaches and/or administrators will be canned.  Several people said, "Why would FSU cover it; JW wasn't even a starter last December."  Because they knew he'd simply transfer if arrested and dismissed from the team or punished by being benched.
3. If the DNA matches, JW is DONE at FSU.  
4. His Heisman run is already over, unless (by some miracle) he is cleared of all charges and the woman announces that she was entirely wrong (case of misidentification).  The DNA IS THE KEY!  Even if JW is 'not found guilty', his Heisman chances are over (UNLESS HE IS CLEARED).  Being a freshman is already a strike against him (reference JFF).
5. By mid-December we'll know.  We may face FSU without him (and their backup is gone).

If there is a DNA match, then Winston is just plain stupid for denying it. And I'm guessing he is denying it since he's come up with an apparent alibi. The alibi won't hold up if the DNA matches.

In my old law enforcement experience, I have seen girls accuse boys of rape when what really happened was, it was consensual sex, and the girl either felt guilty afterward, or parents/boyfriend found out and they cried rape. Not saying that is what happened here, but if it was, and JW did, he would have been much better off manning up and telling the truth....if he had done that from the beginning. If he changes his mind after the DNA discovery (if his) and then says it was consensual, he will be perceived as a liar and is toast, for sure.

 

In your law enforcement experience, how would the police department obtain his DNA evidence?  He shouldn't be in any data base because he has no prior convictions.  I'm assuming that the police currently don't have his DNA and haven't made a match.  Maybe that's why they are interviewing witnesses, to obtain probable cause for a subpoena (or would a person's fifth amendment right against self-incrimination protect Winston from having to provide DNA evidence?)  Some of the witnesses appear to be providing Winston with an alibi.  ESPN said this morning that the alleged victim ID'd Winston about a month after the incident.

I'm not one to jump on the "he's guilty" bandwagon.  It seems the last time we had such a high profile rape case was at Duke, and we know how that turned out (prosecuting attorney was sanctioned for abuse).  Like you said, many times these allegations prove false.  The accused is under terrible public pressure even though he hasn't yet been proven guilty of anything, and I'm willing to forego forming an opinion until more evidence comes out.

[Marshal Dillon]

The most confusing thing for me is that the police NEVER interviewed Winston. This tells me one of three things:

1) the police dropped the ball due to incompetence

2) police covering up for FSU player

3) they doubt the woman's story

The other confusing matter is why no consultation with the state attorney, this looks really bad. I do not see a simple answer for this.

 
 

[ALTideUp]

It sounds like the attorney general just learned about the case this week, nearly a year later. There is no way to explain that delay on the basis of the length of the investigation. This sounds like something that someone tried to keep a lid on, but something has changed. Maybe the victim threatened to go to the press, or there is another allegation looming. It's either an attempt to cover up gone wrong or someone trying to exploit JM's fame with a false accusation.

Like I said.

The mishandling of this by police and the possible collusion between FSU and the police may be a story that dwarfs the sexual assault charge.

[Catch Prothro]

The most confusing thing for me is that the police NEVER interviewed Winston. This tells me one of three things:

1) the police dropped the ball due to incompetence

2) police covering up for FSU player

3) they doubt the woman's story
 

^THIS^

Nice summary of the possibilities.  I supposed there is also this:

4) JW lawyered up immediately and refused to speak with the police

[ALTideUp]

According a story by Schlabach on ESPN, FSU AD policy states that if an athlete is charged with a felony crime they are suspended from play pending the resolution of the court case. With their back-up QB out, that turn of events would spell the end of FSU's NC hope. Given the growing perception that the Tallahassee police tried to shield Winston, there will be enormous pressure on the state's AG to charge him in order to counter the perception that star athletes are above the law. This is not looking food for the Seminole fans.

I should also say that this isn't looking good for us. With FSU at full strength we had the possibility of winning a non-astrixed NC. Best against the best, with no excuses. If Winston is out, or another team like OSU sneaks in because FSU falters without Winston, all we'll hear is that we couldn't have beaten FSU at full strength.

[Jamos]

I'm curious as to why all this leaked out all of a sudden. Who has the most to gain from this if Winston is declared inelgible, I can promise you it isn't Bama. TMZ is notorious for looking in the bottom of the garbage can but who put them up to it this time, who has the most to gain?

[Catch Prothro]

According a story by Schlabach on ESPN, FSU AD policy states that if an athlete is charged with a felony crime they are suspended from play pending the resolution of the court case. With their back-up QB out, that turn of events would spell the end of FSU's NC hope. Given the growing perception that the Tallahassee police tried to shield Winston, there will be enormous pressure on the state's AG to charge him in order to counter the perception that star athletes are above the law. This is not looking food for the Seminole fans.

I should also say that this isn't looking good for us. With FSU at full strength we had the possibility of winning a non-astrixed NC. Best against the best, with no excuses. If Winston is out, or another team like OSU sneaks in because FSU falters without Winston, all we'll hear is that we couldn't have beaten FSU at full strength.

I'm OK with destroying OSU in the BCSCG.

(If Winston is out, even if FSU wins out, voters likely will put OSU ahead of them.)

[ALTideUp]

I'm curious as to why all this leaked out all of a sudden. Who has the most to gain from this if Winston is declared inelgible, I can promise you it isn't Bama. TMZ is notorious for looking in the bottom of the garbage can but who put them up to it this time, who has the most to gain?

TMZ is a for profit business. They may simply have decided to sit on it until the moment of maximum impact was achieved. If you follow the timeline, I suspect that the freedom of information request is dated the friday after Oregon lost.

[McBaman]

Great, informative, thoughtful posts by all.  But having read them all... I still don't get it.  Something goofy going on here that we can't figure out.  In the long run, facts -- like DNA evidence -- will prevail.

This case has been mishandled.  That much we can say for sure. That puts pressure on the state's attorney to clean it up and get it right.  So I guess he's the key right now.  I hope he does a good job and does it fairly soon.

[Marshal Dillon]

I'm curious as to why all this leaked out all of a sudden. Who has the most to gain from this if Winston is declared inelgible, I can promise you it isn't Bama. TMZ is notorious for looking in the bottom of the garbage can but who put them up to it this time, who has the most to gain?

Either someone connected to the athletic department leaked this or someone in the police department. It's the only two possibilities. Maybe someone felt this case was being covered up and did not want it to just go away without a thorough review.


 

[McBaman]

FWIW.... just found this on the Tallahassee Democrat website...

Click here for link


Paper is taking some heat for even reporting the story.  Hope the link works.

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