Crimson Red Sports

 :( :( :(

I'm more worried about his injury. He was off tonight because of his ankles, I think. He actually injured them both.

Sorry, after what we just witnessed, that is the last thing on my mind right now.

I agree with 2 and SC however, the ballots went out today and are due back by Monday.  I think if they look at his total body of work this season then there is no way that he doesn't win.  I saw one site that said he was -500 odds to win and the 2nd place guy was +250.  Not sure he could overtake Tua… maybe? :dunno:

He plays in the toughest conference in the country, and his only non-excellent game was tonight, likely due to his injured ankles. He should win it. Kyler Murray is his closest competitor and he plays in a conference that has ZERO defense. Tua should win it but he and the rest of Bama Nation are more interested in another Natty.

(https://scontent.fhsv1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47106565_10204718227912589_3237783726272282624_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.fhsv1-1.fna&oh=e578fcd7fa86798f4606eb1e2bd7c483&oe=5C6EDD68)

speechless

After putting some more thought into the original question, I have come to the conclusion that Tua did indeed lose the Heisman trophy tonight.
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. To Jalen Hurts...   ;)

Same here, SC. We've had a lot of great games in our history, including the miracle from last year, but this takes the cake.

It’s a fair question.

I don’t think an injury will hurt his chances. I hope his complete body of work will be considered.  But, you know how some are, it may be a ‘what have you done for me lately’ kind of thing.  :popcorn2:

 :lol2:

Plus, he did not play in the 4th quarter in NINE games. That's over 2 full games. I think he squeaks by to win it.

I think he wins. Voters should take into account that his ankle was injured on the first possession, and clearly affected his play today. Increase his stats by 25% to account for the 4th quarters he didn’t play (because the team was up so big due to his excellence) and he blows the other guys out of th water.

I like the way you think.   :worship: :worship: :worship:

e-cred

I just don't know how how the voters move. They have put very bad guys without morals so I just don't know. You have to remember this same bunch invited a crook from FSU to win it. RTR!

And a drunk.  Don't forget the drunk from aTm...  :eyeroll:

It won't be a popular opinion here, but I honestly think Murray deserves it more.

Based on???

Jalen Hurts would have had the same stats if he'd been at Okie.
And Tua is better than Jalen.

Yeah, there is zero D in the Big 12. Murray had an eternity in the pocket against WV and Tx. ANY QB can excell when you have that much time. I know, you have to give the O line credit, but against those Ds, nah.

Murray might be the best overall athlete on the field, but Tua is the best QB. 

What I consider more impressive performance. 

one game or the whole season?

My truth is Tua is the best QB in the nation. Jalen is the best running QB in the nation. RTR!

Murray's stats are inflated because his team's defense sucks and they struggle to win games against inferior opponents right up to the final seconds.  Alabama blew every opponent out by 20 points in the regular season and shuts things down early in the 2nd half.  Murray shouldn't have an advantage because his team sucks.  And this says nothing of the fact that he is playing against Big 12 defenses as opposed to SEC defenses.

This ^  Also, add in the fact that before yesterday Tua only played into the 4th quarter in two (2) games ALL SEASON!  And one other thing, Oklahoma actually lost a game during the season.  Tua did not lose a game.  Give it to Tua (which in case no one else noticed, his initials are The University of Alabama)… Coincidence?

 :clap: :clap: :clap: Amen on the initials. RTR!

Did I hear wrong?  I thought some announcer said that many had voted before the game.

If Daniel Moore paints this he can have all my money.

I'm not Daniel Moore but if you give me half of your money I'll see what I can do...   ;D

You’ll do it for $.27? Cool!

If Tua loses it will surprise me but I think both QB should be on stage in NY City. RTR!

I don't understand the arguments against Murray that "his defense sucks so his stats are overinflated."  I'm not just going by his stats, first of all.  Ever watch the guy play?  He's really, really darn good.  His arm is better than Tua's, and his accuracy was better than Tua's for the last half of the season.  As far as I know, he's a pretty good guy and teammate as well.

Yeah, his defense does suck.  That means he's under pressure to perform at the highest level and score 50-60 points EVERY GAME.  Tua was under pressure with a game in doubt once this year.  Once.  And it didn't turn out well for him.

And I'm not judging by one game, but it did become the deciding factor.  I considered them neck and neck going into this week, so, oh well.  

I'm not convinced that the defenses that Murray faced can be realistically compared to the SEC defenses that Tua faced, and other than against UGA, he excelled for 3 quarters against.  Did Murray get to sit the 4th quarter this year?

Before Saturday, Alabama had played against ONE team in the top 40 in pass defense.  One.  Louisville was the second ranked pass defense they'd played for Pete's sake.  Not saying Murray played against good defenses, but apparently most of our games weren't against good defenses either.

The fact that he has to "score 50-60 points EVERY GAME" is what I mean by his stats are overinflated, and sounds like we are in agreement on that point.  But that shouldn't be an argument against him, I'm just saying we are not comparing apples to apples on stats.  As for watching him play, I only saw him in the Big 12 Championship game for a little while and frankly wasn't impressed.  People who only saw Tua in the SEC Championship wouldn't be impressed either though.

I just hope Tua is not penalized in the minds of voters who are looking at the stat sheet of both players and seeing things like number of TDs, etc.  (Haskins has both of them in that category by the way.)

I am sick of hearing things like "Oklahoma should be in the playoff because they have a historic offense."  They have a historic offense because they play in the Big 12.  If they are playing against defenses like LSU, Mississippi State, Auburn, Kentucky (this year :lol2:), Georgia, Florida, etc. instead of Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, etc. I think Murray would look like a much different QB.  I don't remember him standing out when he was at aTm.

I would love to see Tua win it, but I won't cry if he doesn't.

The HIGHEST ranked Big 12 team is TCU at #39.  Louisville is #40.  It would be interesting to calculate the average pass defense of our opponents vs. theirs.  My gut says Tua wins that argument handily, but I am not interested in crunching the numbers.  :lol2:

Texas is #126 in pass defense, by the way.  I didn't know we had that many teams.  :lol2:

Holy Moly!  Guess who is last?  Oklahoma at #130.  :lol2:

UGA is #25.

Apples and oranges.

I'm not sure what site you are using, probably ESPN?  Anyways, I went to this site (http://www.cfbstats.com/2018/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category02/sort01.html) and crunched the numbers as they stand right now.  Here are the results that I came up with.  Disclaimer:  I am not a mathematician so results could probably be made to look differently..

Oklahoma's opponent's average pass defense ranking is 86.3.  The highest ranked pass defense they faced was Army at #30. The lowest ranked pass defense they faced was Texas Tech at #128

Bama's opponent's average pass defense ranking is 58.25.  The highest ranked pass defense we faced was Mississippi State at #6.  The lowest ranked pass defense Bama faced was Texas A&M at #109.  Bama had three opponents whose pass defense was in the Top 25 in the nation, Arkansas State, Mississippi State, and UGA.

I think based on this that Tua's performance in three quarters of all but basically 2 games overshadows what Murray did against ALL opponents for four quarters.

 :pray: :pray: I actually think that if anybody should be even considered with Tua on the Heisman Trophy it should JALEN. These are without a doubt the best 2 QB's in the college football world right now. RTR!

Your rose-colored glasses are showing, Preacher.   :lol2:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ukXaQsWTJrI/SJxoXPOoZRI/AAAAAAAABuA/GLJoDF8ukpQ/s320/rose_colored_glasses.jpg)

No sir Crimson colored. RTR!

I tried that, but only found a pic of a monkey wearing them, so I didn't post it.   :lol2: :lol2:

I'll take the monkey with crimson all day long!  :lol2:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/41/20/9f4120811ef11dc306b8388adea08543.png)

Good stuff NALT.

Yep, I was looking at espn.com.

I did notice during the Big 12 championship game that Murray literally could stand in the pocket for an entire quarter if he wanted too.  So either Oklahoma has an all world NFL caliber offensive line or Texas has a bunch of nuns playing D line.

And Tua was hurt early in the game.  So there!  :lol2:

Tua started the game 3/10. Four of the seven “misses” were drops. How different would the perception of his performance be if a couple of those drops had been caught?

Excellent point.  And I really do think Tua was going to lead us to victory if he had been able to finish the game.  The last TD drive when he was in looked like we were beginning to get things back on track.

TUA is a well deserving player for his accolades. RTR!