Crimson Red Sports

I would like to hear some comments from my fellow posters & their opinions of Coach Grant's coaching, the teams problems, & his job status. I notice that very few folks have responded in the last thread & game. I assume this to be due to extreme frustration and disappointment with the team this year, not to mention the past 6 years of Grant's tenure.

Most of you are aware of my position on him & his status. He should have been fired last year. Our teams have had the same problems almost EVERY year, poor outside shooting, poor rebounding, too much fouling, no signature win (not one), inability to win on the road, non-conference losses, etc. Right now we are snake bit, losing games in strange ways & close games. I am afraid that Grant might be losing the team, but not 100% sure yet. We play UK on Saturday & that could be really ugly. Right now, I think a record of 18-13 is our best bet, but no NCAA Tourney invite. Give me your ideas & observations. Thanks.




 :dog:

Unless there is a miraculous turn around, I think it is time for a new coach.  I am very disappointed that things have not worked out the way we all hoped.  I really like CAG, but we seem to be stuck in the same place year after year.

My biggest concern about making a change is that there are not a lot of top notch coaches out there that would come to Alabama.  So we are going to end up taking another chance on another unproven coach, and that is just as likely to not work out either.  Would we better off giving CAG more time to learn on the job or starting all over with a new coach who will quite likely be just as green as CAG was when he came?  It is a tough call.

The results speak for themselves.

You can search all the way back to 2001 - 02.

BAMA
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/333/alabama-crimson-tide (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/333/alabama-crimson-tide)

VCU
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/2670/virginia-commonwealth-rams (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/2670/virginia-commonwealth-rams)

NCSU
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/152/nc-state-wolfpack (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/152/nc-state-wolfpack)

I believe that the program is actually getting worse under Grant.

For the record, I wanted him to succeed and I was very excited about his hiring.

If he were the football coach he would have been gone two years ago.

I haven't had the opportunity to see too many games this year, but what I have seem and based on past precedent, I also think that a change might be called for. I have been one of the ones who has stuck by him thus far, but it really seems like the team is in a rut. This is season six, and it does not seem things are improving. However, I worry like SC that we wouldn't be able to find a good replacement for CAG. It is really a tossup that could hurt us either way we go.

Well, this will be my 1000th post and it's as good a topic as any for that auspicious event.

MD, if you go back and read the comments from the FL game, and imagine you are reading it 3 - 4 years ago, then you really get how the same problems that existed back then haven't been fixed.  This is supposed to be the most talented team CAG has had at Bama but it doesn't perform any better than past editions.  CAG just isn't getting the job done.  Time for a change.  I'm not even sure I'd wait until end of season.

I can't believe that Bill Battle can't find a better coach.  Someone who can teach/train out players to play better, shoot FT's, and motivate them to play with intensity.  There just have to be guys out there who will come here. C.M. Newton was pretty unknown when he came to Bama and that worked out OK. Wimp was unproven when he was named HC and he worked out OK.  It's a matter of getting proven coaching skills and not just getting a big name.  Give me somebody who nobody ever heard of but who can coach the game of basketball.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding when a coach should be replaced, even the coaches themselves.  I have been guilty of wanting this coach or that coach replaced in the past just like everyone else.  Regardless, I don't like to see a coach get fired if he/she is making progress.  Sadly, the measuring stick for "progress" in the athletic world is simply based on wins and losses.  It may be time for Bama to go with another basketball coach.  The team doesn't seem to be winning games that perhaps we as fans think they should.  IMO, the UF game was all but a guaranteed loss though so that one really doesn't bother me.  The loss to Arkansas does.  Also, I am not one to buy into the theory that Bama has to hire a top-notch coach.  I see nothing wrong with bringing in someone that can develop into a successful coach.

In college sports it is about money. This equates to wins and losses. If people don't come there is no money and whether we get another OJT type coach or not if you keep the same thing expecting a different result that is insane. It was time last year but this year is for real. This is like football all the hype on the talent and then that talent can't win at least 2 games on the 2 point margin. We need somebody else. The name we have in basketball won't draw a name but Coach Battle can and should find us a good replacement. MHO. RTR!

As I sat at Coleman and watched the first half of the game last night, my anger got worse and worse and by halftime I was ready to leave the game. As I passed a friend of mine, ex Bama football player, I asked him is this the best that these players can play. He looked at me and smiled and said yes I think it is. I've never been a quitter and I told myself to go back and finish watching the game, I owed myself that satisfaction of not giving up on the team.

We've had many discussions and arguments on the forum about Bama basketball and I've always been a proponent of not making knee jerk reactions when it comes to replacing coaches, and I still stand by my not making rash decisions when I'm very angry. I've had about 24 hours to mull over this and basically I feel the same as most of the people I have talked with today as well as you members on the forum. I did my best in the second half of the game to find a reason for this teams continued lackluster of play and I could only blame it on the lack of good coaching.

Today I was thinking back to when Grant came to Bama and remembered the first two years that he had Gottfried's recruits and how the team had some promise and I was a firm believer that when he got his recruits in here, the team should be much better. I also remember back in Grant's early years when the team could not inbounds a ball, couldn't shoot free throws or they would make late game turnovers to cost the team a win. These are the same things that are still happening with this team and it shouldn't be after six years of coaching them. Last night I watched the team pass the ball round and around the perimeter and never attempt to move the ball inside toward the basket and finally throw up a Hail Mary with 3 seconds on the play clock, this hasn't changed since he has been coaching here. The list goes on and on of the same mistakes or the lack of play that denies this team a chance to be where it once was, competing for a conference championship and a chance to play in the NCAA tournament.

I am not ashamed to say I was wrong about Grant because there has been so many distractions on his teams that I felt was a big factor in why the team was performing the way it had in the past and felt sure that things would get better but I was dead wrong. I was firmly convinced that this was the year everything would turn around and Bama would be competing for an NCAA spot in the Big Dance and Bama basketball would return to where it once was, but that is not the case at all and I finally said enough is enough. Grant has had every chance to right his ship but has failed miserably and personally I think there will be a coaching change at the end of the year. RTR!!!

 

I've pretty much removed myself from watching basketball since the Wichita State game. I can no longer tolerate the totally crappy officiating that is dictating the outcome of games. Not just Bama games, but all of them. College basketball has turned into the WWF or WWE or whatever they are calling wrassling these days. I just can't watch it anymore.

CAG's time here has not been short. Were this to be his last season he would be tied with Hobb's for shortest stay. So, it's not like letting go of Grant would create the coaching carousel impression that this was a bad place to coach. Although it might seem that we took a perfectly successful coach and turned him into a mediocre one, his winpcg at VCU was .645, only 5% higher than here, and based on fewer seasons.

I too wanted him to succeed. Seems like a fine fellow. But we need to get over the hump. We are going to end this season about 12 points away from a six seed at the dance (looking at all the close losses). Although that view of things tempts one to wait out CAG a little longer, it's more and more feeling like he is hitting a ceiling.

Bama ended up with CM Newton because of Bear Bryant's connections to the Kentucky program.  Wimp was his assistant and took over when Newton retired.  Gottfried was a former Bama player.  Beyond those three, the state of Bama basketball has mostly been middle of the road. 

I have to think Alabama is not the first destination of the top tier of H.S. talent.  And therefore not the first choice of top coaches.  Grant is good coaching defense, but the offense is mostly inept.  Everyone was screaming for Gottfried to get fired, but his worst teams probably would beat Grant's best team, by 2 points. 

Maybe Saban can use his connections to Michigan State and they can recommend someone who can coach.  (I don't think Kentucky is going to do that again.)  But I'm not sure there is a big push yet for getting rid of Grant, at least by those who make the decisions.

Interesting.  Certainly Coach Bryant called Adolph Rupp at Kentucky, which led to CM's hire.  That story always surprised me, because I assumed that Coach Bryant burned all of those bridges.   :dunno:

Unfortunately, I'll bet Coach Saban's bridges at Michigan State are indeed burned.  But if not, I'd welcome a fresh start and a talented coach.

 :popcorn2:

Of course it isn't my decision as to when Grant goes or who replaces him but...just my .02 here.  I wouldn't mind if they went out and hired one of the nation's top high school coaches and gave him a chance.  Might just have the drive to succeed that Bama needs...  Thoughts?

I don't get to watch much basketball in Asia.  I guess I could if I really made the effort, but I follow the team as best I can.  I echo the sentiments being expressed by everyone else.  I was really excited about Grant when he was hired.  Early on it seemed like there was a string of bad luck with players leaving for various reasons, so I was willing to give him time.  I feel that he's had plenty of time now and isn't getting the job done.  I hate to see a man fired, but if Bama basketball is going to advance beyond its current state I think a change is needed.  I had high hopes for this year entering SEC play and the win at Tennessee seemed like a great start.  Sadly it seems to have been a fluke.

To me, the worst part of Grant's failures is having to agree with Marshall Dillion...  (http://bullgatorslounge.com/images/smilies/poke.gif)

 :lol2:

Add Cecil to the list of the disgruntled.

http://www.chatsports.com/alabama-crimson-tide/a/CECIL-HURT-Something-has-to-change-for-Alabama-basketball-0-11075246

Wow!  When Cecil writes a column with a title like that, I gotta think the end is nigh.

You do not need a “big name” coach.  Whoever heard of Brad Stevens?


What other measure is there?  He is a coach.  I am not saying wins over integrity, but that logic is like saying, sadly the only measure of a car salesman is how many cars he sales.


Grant is getting plenty of that.


Speaking of MSU. Izzo does more with less every year.  I am not implying that Izzo is leaving MSU.


I think this is the answer.  I will say it again, Scott Suttles.


HA!

Also, UK will beat BAMA by 30+ unless Calipari calls off the dogs.

I think we are ready for a change. I am about as loyal fan as anyone and I am discussed, disappointed and losing interest in a sport I have looked forward to all year. There is no energy in our program. None! Not the fans, players or even the head coach.

I like CAG. I think he is a good man but our program deserves a good coach who puts a quality team on the floor every game. We are not going to win them all but we should be able to compete at a high level every game win or lose.

I will be watching and pulling for our team the rest of the way. I hope the team can regain their focus and finish strong. However, a strong finish will not change my mind at this point. We need a new coach. Making the NCAA as a bubble team is not good enough anymore.

I appreciate so many of you guys commenting on the state of Tide basketball. First, I would like to state some facts about the basketball program. Alabama is 2nd only to Kentucky in wins & conference tournament championships in its history. This program can win with the right coach & can find a good coach based on this, its location, its conference (SEC), and can pay big dollars, like Grant's $1.8 million yearly salary.

Just like Coach Bryant, the AD can ask coaches like Roy Williams (UNC), Coach K, Coach Izzo, & Coach Pitino for recommendations for a coach. Coach C.M. Newton came from Transylvania College, Pearl from Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Coach K from Army & most head coaches came from lower level programs at one time. We can definitely find a coach, but it does take some luck, too.

Now, Coach Grant. I was excited when he was first hired due to the same reasons as most folks, his work with Coach Donovan and his time at VCU. Unfortunately, Grant has shown himself to be unable to develop players, make in-game adjustments, and teach the basics of the game like rebounding, blocking out, passing effectively, and finally, recruiting. It took him 5 years to get a decent recruiting class. I use a rule I call the 4 year rule. If a coach shows steady progress each year (in winning), the players look like they know what they are doing, he recruits well, then he usually knows what he is doing. I use this rule with any sport and seems pretty accurate.

Good article by Cecil. This pretty much sums up Grant's coaching.






 :wall: :wall: :wall:

Have to disagree with you on a couple of points. Grant worked under Donovan for 12 years and has been a head coach for 9 years. His problem is, he can't coach and if he coached 10 more years he still won't be head coach material. Alabama BB is not Tide football. We can't get a Thad Matta, Coach K, or Billy Donovan but we can get someone who might get us to that level. Donovan built UF to national prominence from almost nothing & Coach K had been the coach of Army when he arrived to coach a dead Duke program. Who knew these 2 coaches would be so great? Same goes for Bobby Knight. Most anytime you select a new coach it's a crap shoot. We can do better than Grant. I think we have some real talent on the team for next year with Hale, Coleman, Kessens, Taylor, Tarrant, Mitchel, & Norris, but they need a coach who can develop them. No way will the fans accept another year of Grant and his "play not to lose" mindset.

I'm a little worried. We all pretty much seem to be in agreement here. The Apocalypse is nigh, isn't it?

(http://media.giphy.com/media/HhTXt43pk1I1W/giphy-facebook_s.jpg)

We are in agreement because it's THAT obvious.

Also...MD...those last 2 - 3 posts of yours summed up the matter very well.  And thanks for starting this thread.

I have to agree with this post. Well done MD. Our economy feeds our families but in the real world if you can't do your job you don't get 4 to 6 years to fix it. If you claim on a resume' that you are a man of this profession, whatever it is, you are expected to show progress quickly. Just my opinion everybody. RTR!

Serious and focused all the way to the bottom of page two, and in the football off-season no less. Troubling signs of maturity.

(https://doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/hell-frozen.jpg)

CAG has had his chance. Six years is long enough. A lot of Bama fans thought a change should have been made last year. I disagreed with them and thought CAG deserved another year. I was wrong.

I do not know who we should go after or who might be available. A young and upcoming mid major coach may be the best option. Going this route does not always work out but change is needed. Our program is stagnate and we need a high energy guy who can motivate the team and energize the fan base. Ultimately he must be a winner.

Our program is not in terrible shape. The right guy can come in and make an immediate impact. 

This is what I was thinking. Here is a list from 2013 looking at the best coaches under age 40. I have not checked to see how they have been doing since then.



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1744302-the-10-best-college-basketball-coaches-under-40-years-old

I think there are a lot of good young energetic coaches out there and say what you want, there are plenty of them that would like to be a part of the University of Alabama. The SEC is very close to being a top basketball conference from top to bottom again and Bama happens to be one of the two schools at the bottom of the conference right now with Auburn being the other. Auburn resolved their problem with the hiring of Bruce Pearl and now Bama needs to follow suit.

Having the money is not a problem in hiring the right coach for Bama, having someone to know who is the right coach for the job is the problem. ;)

BINGO!!!




 :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm not sure that it's that bleak:

SEC   W-L   GB   PCT   W-L   PCT   STRK
#1 Kentucky   7-0   --   1.000   20-0   1.000   W20
Arkansas   5-2   2   .714   16-4   .800   W3
LSU   5-2   2   .714   16-4   .800   W3
Georgia   5-2   2   .714   14-5   .737   W5
Texas A&M   5-2   2   .714   14-5   .737   W5
Ole Miss   4-3   3   .571   13-7   .650   W2
Tennessee   4-3   3   .571   12-7   .632   L2
Florida   4-3   3   .571   11-9   .550   W1
Alabama   3-4   4   .429   13-7   .650   L1
Auburn   2-5   5   .286   10-10   .500   L3
Mississippi St   2-5   5   .286   9-11   .450   L2
Vanderbilt   1-6   6   .143   11-9   .550   L6
South Carolina   1-6   6   .143   10-9   .526   L4
Missouri   1-6   6   .143   7-13   .350   L6

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/standings/_/id/23/sec-conference

After watching uk v. mizzou last night I am revising my prediction.

BAMA loses by 20.

I still think BAMA only wins 3 of its remaining games.
uscE
mizzou
vandy (split)

 :stop:

Bama is making the move - and I don't think it is any doubt it's gonna happen - 1 year too late. I think Bruce Pearl would have come to Bama in a heart beat.

boogerU and Pearl deserve each other.

I would like to see a former pro-coach.  Phil Jackson.

I wonder if any of the other boards are calling for a new coach? I haven't seen any myself. RTR!

A known(caught) liar and cheater, No Thanks.  There are enough class guys out there and he isn't one of them.

Jackson is 69 years old and is paid $12 mil a year by the Knicks. We may as well try for Coach K.


 :eyeroll:

Shows how much I keep up with the NBA.

I would prefer Pat Riley anyway.

I do think that there are most likely some former NBA coaches that have decent records that might be interested in a college gig at a state flagship university.

I am all for a small college head coach, or an assistant from a D1 school.

However, I think that a coach  with professional level experience would able to draw recruits and have experience at working within a large organization.

Like I said, I am willing to give a high school coach a shot.

I frankly do not care who it is, or where they come are currently working.

Just having an actual coach would be an improvement.

Pat Riley is around 70 years old & makes around $9 mil with the Heat. Red Auerbach is dead & KC Jones is over 80, so don't pick them either.





(http://www.northernsun.com/images/imagelarge/Professional-Smartass-Button-(0165).png)




 :spitball:

Pretty much all of them are, Preacher.

And local sportswriters.

I personally do not see salary, or age of a coach, being an issue.

Like I said, I do not watch the NBA.

You seem to be on top of it.

I named my two choices.  

Can you think of some former, or current, NBA coaches (head or assistant) that are realistic possibilities and who would be a good fit for the program?

 :popcorn2:



 
 

I wouldn't want him either.

I don't follow the NBA as closely as once but I know Jackson played for the Knicks around 1970 & Riley play for the Lakers at the same time so I knew they were old. I am totally against hiring an assistant coach at any level. We need to be looking at a proven coach at the college level, like the mid majors. As I stated on another thread, Coach K went from Army to a dead Duke program, Bruce Pearl from Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Billy Donovan from Marshall to Florida, & so on.

Right now, I have not researched coaches who may be available. Teams I would look at include Dayton (Archie Miller), Xavier, Northern Iowa, Murray St., Wofford, & others. Besides Coach Miller, I don't know much about the other coaches.


 :dunno:

Nor I.  He's a perfect fit for Auburn.

How about the coach from Wichita State? He seems to have a program that is busy every year. RTR!

He is a good coach Ricky as well as some others up in that part of the country but getting them to leave their job is another problem. I would sure like to see Bama get a coach from that area and bring some of those good players down our way. The Midwest and Northeast are loaded with good players, we've just got to find somebody that can bring them to Alabama.

I've been out all day and just read all the good thoughts posted here today.  I will suggest we think about the skill set a head BB coacn at Bama needs to bring.  Here's my short list.

1.  HC experience for at least 3-years.  The guy needs to know how to run a program.  This is a skill that is largely learned from experience.

2. A coach who is an good recruiter.  We are unlikely to get many 5-stars but a few 4-stars would surely help.  Failing that, we need to get the best of the 3's.

3.  Because we are not going to get 5-stars, we need a HC -- and a staff -- that has shown they know how to teach the game and develop players.  You gotta take those 3-stars and teach them to play like 5-stars.  That is a skill.  Some coaches know how to do this.  CAG is not one of them.

4.  A coach who is a good leader and motivator; one who can get guys to reach down in their gut and play with intensity.

Those are skills that can be evaluated.  There are mid-major coaches out there who can bring such a skill set to the Bama job.  It's CBB's job to go get one of them.

RTR!!!

Nailed it. This is pretty much what Jamos, pmull, & others have said.



 :clap:

The only problem is that we thought CAG was going to be the coach everyone is describing.  6 years later it is obvious he is not.  If we get it wrong again, will it be another 6 years of mediocrity?  What if we get it wrong a couple more times?  We could flounder for a  decade or more.  You know, like we did with the football program between CGS and CNS.  None of us want that for the basketball team.  So the million dollar questions is this:  how do we get it right this time?

I think the answer lies in getting the right people on the search committee, and then be willing to pay top dollar in order to persuade the guy to come build a program at Bama.  What is the top salary for a men's basketball coach?  We need to be in the same ballpark with that, and willing to make the guy the top paid coach if he wins a national championship.  Write it into the contract.

As for the search committee, how about these guys:

1.  Bill Battle (of course)
2.  C. M. Newton
3.  Wimp Sanderson
4.  Nick Saban

Who else?

CNS might not be able to evaluate them on their ability to coach basketball, but he can certainly evaluate them on their ability to run the program and all of the other skills they need to be successful.

I would add Bobby Knight to that committee list. Also, I still think talking to Coach K, Roy Williams, & Jim Calhoun for references can't hurt. Money is no problem when a coach like Archie Miller is making $400,000 a year at Dayton, as an example. We are not going to get an "elite" coach but a solid coach from a lower tier level.


 :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

Every coach starts somewhere. The best coaches in the college game were assistants at one time. Most of them started at a small mid major school before being hired as a power conference school head coach. They don't all turn out to be good hires. CAG is just one example. Two more failures that come to mind are Jeff Lebo and Tony Barbee at the barn. Both of those guys looked like solid hires but did far worse than CAG. Hiring any coach is a risk. I am not saying we should not pursue a home run hire because we should. I am saying a home run hire is a long shot and our best option may be a mid major guy like Archie Miller at Dayton or someone similar to him at that level.

McBaman nailed it on the skill set we need for the next head coach. I would add that the next head coach needs to promote our program. Nothing fills seats like winning but creating a better game day experience would help too. The new coach needs to get out and do speaking engagements and radio interviews and get people interested. We are die hards  on this board. We love everything Alabama. The average Bama fan only cares about football. That needs to change. We have a fantastic gymnastics program but they should not be out drawing our men's basketball team.

Good list.

I agree it needs to be someone with head coaching experience would be nice, but eliminating assistants from consideration severely limits the pool of candidates.

With Tarrant out I move my prediction back to uk by 30+.

Cliff Ellis is coaching at Coastal Carolina.

MD will complain that he is too old.

Do you think a 69 year old coach is good for the future of the program? Don't you want someone who might be around 15 years & get the program rolling at a high level? Name one program that ever started with a 69 year old coach to build for the future. Plus, Ellis has left 2 programs in deep trouble after he left, Clemson & Auburn.


 :dog:

I will see your two land-grant institutions and raise you a Bobby Cremins. 

He is 68.

I think a 60-something year old coach could provide valuable service for 5 - 7 years while looking for, or possibly having him develop, the next 15 year coaching candidate.

Bobby Cremins has not coached in 2 years. He had to leave due to exhaustion & possibly Parkinson's. His last stop was the mighty College of Charleston and he became their coach at age 59, not 69. You don't pay a coach millions of dollars to develop a future coach, you pay him to win. If Cremins was such a hot coach, how come nobody else wanted him, answer, because he was too old. Also, do you equate the College of Charleston on the same level as Alabama & the SEC? Just wondering.


 :dog:

A few coaching names to consider.

Archie Miller - Dayton: A good young up and coming coach. If I were on the search committee he would be high on my list to interview.

Ben Howland- Unemployed: Last coached UCLA in 12-13 season. Age 57. Fired at UCLA after 10 years going 25-10 in his last year with a first round loss in NCAA. His team finish 24th in the final AP poll. He had 5 seasons at UCLA with 25 wins or more. Three seasons with 30 wins or more (32, 30, 35). He was very successful at Pitt before taking the UCLA job. I am shocked he is out of work.

Mike White - LA Tech: 37 years old. Very young and inexperienced. Played at Ole Miss. Assistant at Jacksonville State and Ole Miss being getting the LA Tech job. He is 91-36 in four years at the C-USA school. 43-14 in conference play. He could be the next shining star or in over his head in the SEC.

If I were on the search committee I would contact Mark Few, Greg Marshall, Brad Stevens and some other home run hires just to gauge their interest if any. They are long shots but you have to at least try.

Pardon my regression, but Cliff Ellis, with Coastal Carolina, has been to the NCAA Tournament more recently than Grant and has been to the NIT as many times as Grant in almost as many years.


Nobody is arguing that coaches are paid to win.

Interesting that you seem to see no value in experience.

Coach K is 67 by the way. 

You wouldn't want him to coach at Alabama b/c he is too old?  Right?

Coach K took a leave from dook due to exhaustion.

Saying that coaches are not paid to develop future coaches is silly and factually incorrect.

You do not think Roy Williams is grooming Hubert Davis to take over at UNC?

Where did Roy learn to coach?  Oh yeah, as an assistant to Dean.

Coack K?  Oh yeah, as an assistant to Knight.

I am sure Coach Bryant learned nothing about coaching from Frank Thomas.  :eyeroll:

Mentoring plays a critical role in multi-billion dollar international corporations for creating future leadership candidates and has been doing the same for college athletics since the beginning of college athletics.

They are called assistant coaches for a reason.

Of course CofC is not Alabama,

Since you brought up "hot shot coaches", correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't CAG a "hot shot coach" from a "mid-level conference" when Alabama hired him 6 years ago?

Sometimes a flash in the pan is just that.

 

Excellent info & I agree, check all those coaches & their interest in coming to Alabama. Plus, Brad Stevens is having a miserable year at the Boston Celtics, he might be missing the college game. Howland has me mystified. Here is more info on him.

You're missing the point. You do not hire a head coach & pay him millions to groom his replacement. Roy Williams returned to North Carolina after two previously "groomed" coaches failed & Williams proved himself a big winner at Kansas. Most assistant coaches fail as head coaches in sports: see Will Muschamp, Bill Oliver, Derrick Dooley, Mike Dumbose, Matt Doherty (UNC), David Hobbs ("groomed" by Wimp Sanderson), & so on. Plus, Coach K turns 68 in less than 2 weeks. Too old to be the future of our program. I want someone who can be with our program for the next 15 years or more. There's a reason NO ONE except small programs hire a coach over 60 years old & I am not impressed in with a team going to the NCAA Tourney, then losing in the first round. Coach Grant was hot, but now he is cold as ice. He will probably end up as head coach of College of Charleston someday.

No, I see your point.  I just do not think it is a one or the other situation.  I think there are positives and negatives to both sides and it ultimately comes down to the candidate that is able to provide the most benefit to the program.  Since Wimp the program is basically running on a 5 year coaching cycle, so I see the baseline requirement for a coach as being 5 years of serviceability.

Like I said, I think Alabama needs to hire a former pro-coach.


You are the one who said "groomed", I said "develop", and that could mean mentoring for a few years or acting as interim coach while assisting with the search process.  Sure it doesn't always work out, but hiring a "hot shot coach" from a mid-level conference does not always work out either.  I think this discussion is proof of that. I would go so far as to say that a much higher level of success can be attributed to mentoring type situations than purchasing the latest hot item at a peak price.


You are missing the point.  Roy learned to coach from another coach.

Guthridge went 80 - 28 in 3 years before retiring at 65.  He was forced into the position b/c Smith retired without warning.


That is simply not true, and you know it.

Name me one coach who was never an assistant coach that achieved any level of success.  I do not think you can do it.


Lots of people clearly not qualified to be head coaches on that list.

-Dumbose was a people's choice fax campaign and never should have been hired.
-Hobbs probably had to start coaching a little too early due to Wimp being Wimp.
-Doherty basically had a mutiny on his hands b/c he was requiring a bunch of  prima donnas to show up for practice and actually practice.

I can hear it now:

K: Hey, MD I am tired of being around all of these yankees at dook.  I am going to move to the sunny deep south and coach BAMA for 5 years or so and help them find a good replacement to captain the ship once I get it on course.

MD:That's alright K, you are too old to provide the program with any benefit and any assistant you bring in is doomed to fail.

That would be my preference as well, but that may not be a realistic possibility at the moment.

Nor am I, just comparing and contrasting two coaches, one at a state flagship institution in the most highly visible conference in the country, and the other at what basically amounts to a glorified junior college (a good one, but still) and the similarity of the results between the two. 

In that situation who has the hardest job of recruiting, the lesser of the facilities, and is truly doing more with less?


Good stuff right there. :clap:

I saw some really good names listed on page 4. You have to think that out of all those names there would be 2 or 3 that would love to come to a tradition filled school like U of A and build their own team. Just a thought I had and what do yall think? RTR!

 I've been doing some searching as some of you have for possible coaches if Bama does make a change but I've been looking at coaches that I think Bama would have a realistic chance of getting. There's one I have in mind, Ben Jacobsen at the University of Northern Iowa. I have seen Northern Iowa play before, they beat the University of Iowa at Iowa City when I was on a trip up there. If you look at their record this year you might be surprised, they beat Wichita State this past weekend for one thing.

Jacobsen has been a solid coach during his career at NI and some consider him to be one of if not the best defensive coach in the country. He is averaging 20.8 wins a year at NI and they play a solid schedule.

I like the idea of him coming to Bama and bringing some of that basketball talent in the Midwest to Tuscaloosa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Jacobson

Yep. Earlier in this thread I mentioned Northern Iowa as place to look at for a replacement. Here are the others:




Thanks for info on the coach. I think we can get a quality coach this time (I hope).


 :clap:

I think he is a good coach. His name is mentioned often as a potential replacement of hot seat coaches. I listed three coaches Archie Miller, Mike While and Ben Howland in a recent thread. If I had listed a fourth it would have been Ben Jacobsen.

Do you think CAG ever reads any of the boards? RTR!

I don't think he reads this one.  If he did I really believe he would show a lot more emotion than he currently does...

Then, he prolly doesn't read any of them. Most of the others are a lot worse than this.  :lol2:

In reading his Bio and how he built the NI team to what it is today, it told me that is exactly what Bama needs in a coach. I don't know if he would be interested in leaving NI but I would like to think he would like to have the chance to move a major college with a huge sports program. Today, Alabama is a great opportunity for any coach that knows how to build a team. I have no idea of what his salary is but I don't think it would even come close to what the lowest salary in the SEC is. I'm telling all of you, there is money on the table to get this basketball program where it needs to be so hopefully Bill Battle is ready to knock on some doors and make a good hire. 

I saw something today on a Coach Herb Magee with Philadelphia university that was going for his 1000th win. I wonder if he would be a good coach for the SEC? RTR!

I found this after this post.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20150202_Philadelphia_U__s_Herb_Magee_closing_in_on_1_000th_win.html
RTR!

He's 73 years old so roll tide roll will love him as our coach & will want to give him a 10 year contract.

Well you are right he probably is too old but I was also thinking about him being a winner at a small school like that. If that might be a place we could also look for a coach. RTR!

 #+ #+ #+

I would rule him out based on his lack of head coaching experience at the D1 and professional level.