Crimson Red Sports

(http://www.crimsonredsports.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6196.0;attach=545;image)

You decide.

You are on to something. Someone will clean that shot up a little to prove our case. Another thing,-- this is the one I couldn't believe,-- was how quick they decided and the lack of argument by the CBS guys (Verne and Gary). I couldn't believe it, began hopping up and down. And it was 12:30 before I saw the camera angle like the one above. What I saw was slo-mo. I'll bet Verne and Gary got this angle in the booth. We'll sort it out tomorrow.

is that the same play where I said we just got raped ?

I got this from the ESPN highlights.  Go to the bama page on espn.com and watch the highlights.  This play is around 1:30 into the clip.  Pause it.  You can move the slider left and right to see this frame by frame.  It is pretty clear that he caught the ball, hit the ground with control and possession of the ball, and then sometime while they are rolling on the ground the DB takes the ball away.

What I don't know about is what the rules say in this situation.  Is he down as soon as his shoulder hits the ground?  If so it should be ruled a catch.  However there may be some rule about maintaining control and possession through the fall.  In that case it may be an interception.

In any case, I think it is safe to say that if that call goes for Bama, we win the game.  Our D ended up holding them on their ensuing possession, but we pretty much quit after that punt sailed over Maze's head.  That was the most disappointing part of the whole game to me.

I expect this to end up being fodder for a rematch.  We really should have won that game.

Yes.

Just saw the replay. We all celebrated Alabama first and goal at the one. Then the call was overturned almost instantly.

Replay shows Williams fall to the turf on his back with possession.

The referee that gave the ball to LSU should be fired, and the replay offcials that did not change the ruling on the field. Pure BS!!

Seems this takes us into the senseless area (already visited this year) about making a football move with the ball. What is a football move? How do you do that while falling on your azz, holding onto the ball with both hands?

In a post on another thread this past week,I said my worst fear of this game was the luck of LSU and the Refs, hmmmm.  ;)

You were right.  Best two posts I've seen about this said 1) "Peterson's un-interception was ruled in Bama's favor last time; now we're even", and 2) "LSU was more efficient and left no points on the field; sign of a championship team".

Close games always come down to just a few plays.

BTW, dirty plays like the penalty that left Dre injured need a rule that sits the offender as long as the injured player is sidelined.  That was trashy.

I didn't see all of the play and they didn't show a replay of it at the game, but I did see him go down and when the Ref threw the flag. The closest ref to the play never threw his flag, he was right behind it, makes you wondeer what he was watching.  ???
But I do think you make a good point as to when there is a flagrant foul, there should be different punishment.

On the non-catch/interception, it wound up being called and interception.  I think incorrectly and Lou Holtz, FWIW, agrees.  It stands as an interception.

Anyone heard anything on the status of Dre, Maze, Jones and Steen for Miss State?

As Williams is falling, the ball shifts in his hands - that is why it was not ruled a catch. Besides, we left so many points on the field, it should not have come down to that play.

I see everyone has done their homework on the loss
I fell asleep with my laptop in a recliner watching the replay of a couple of certain plays

Guys , it was a great ride while it lasted but it seems the wind has left our sails for now
this was a hard one to swallow because of the way it went down & really hate it for the team .
no number 14 this year looks like but we still have some good football to play just at a lower
level of meaning ...
we must beat au and everyone else in between now and the ironbowl.
who knows what might happen , maybe we can wrangle one of those golden horseshoes
away from cheez or maybe les dropped one in the Fail Room ...
Lord knows we are going to need all the luck we can get with our guys that are hurt and all .

Roll Tide !

in the meantime I will be casting hexes on any team that is undefeated or ahead of
us in any shape form or fashion ...

over at tigerdroppings last night folks were being uncharacteristically gracious winners.  one poster said "tom ritter for our MVP!".  That call was absolutely wrong IMO, but I think there were plenty of times we could have wrapped things up before that and it didn't happen.  Disagree with some of Saban's decisions but still glad he is our coach.  AJ on the other hand...

I would not be totally shocked if we meet them again.  OSU is bound to lose a game.  Stanford still has to play Oregon.

All of the recruits in the world, but who knew what we needed was on of those golden horseshoes?

I will give the LSU player credit for not giving up on the play.  He was beat.  He did not get his hands on the ball first, nor did he bait the QB, both of which he has said in interviews.  He did stick with it though and yanked the ball away while they were rolling around on the ground.

It is a new day, but this game still hurts.  We moved the ball on them the whole game.  They did not move the ball on us except for one drive before the half when we had a blown coverage.  In spite of the loss, we will still have the #1 defense.

This pic is making the rounds on the inner webz.  Whether the call was right or wrong, it may lead to a rematch if those 2 teams lose a game.  I expect Bama to be #4 in the BCS today.  It is also possible that LSU slips up.  We still have an outside shot at #14 if we handle the rest of our business.

I voted Bama #1 in the CRS poll. I refuse to let an outcome dictating bad call, lead to any other result. Bama has the better team....period!

HERE ! HERE !     #+

I have been pondering that myself.  Right now I am leaning toward LSU at #1 because of our kicking game.

I will vote LSU number one in the CRS poll because of our kicking game. Is  our special teams coach Bobby Williams?

We have a kicking game?

I think the rule is such that when Williams's rear end hit the ground he was down, with the ball still in both hands, making it a catch and not an interception.  It definitely wasn't a simultaneous catch because Williams had both hands on the ball before LSU defender touched it.  It seems that the refs must be hanging their call on the ball moving in Williams' hands before he hit the ground, but I still think he had possession and was down before the ball was yanked away.

Time to move on from this discussion.  It does provide an agument why Bama should be in the BCSCG if other teams lose, so we may be revisiting it later.

IT WAS A CATCH..AND HE WAS DOWN..IT HAPPENED RIGHT IN FRONT OF MINE, AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER EYES..THE REF THAT MADE THE CALL..HAS MADE OTHER QUESTIONABLE CALLS IN GAMES..

I believe in my heart it was a catch and somebody should send the clip to sec office. That said it is time to move on and get ready for the cowbells. RTR!

Agreed 100%. If the SEC office admits that an officiating mistake was made, that would raise Bama's stock even more.

I watched the 4th Qtr a couple of times yesterday.  That is not the only time an LSU defender grabbed the ball away from an Alabama player after they were down.  The Maze bubble screen earlier in that series comes to mind.  All the other times though it was not on a reception as the player was falling to the ground.  The other times everybody ignored the LSU player because the Bama player already had the ball and was running with it.

This is their MO, and it is the reason they have gotten so many turnovers this year.  I am not criticizing them for trying to strip the ball, but if we play them again we need to make sure to hang on to the ball even after we go down, just in case.

Has anyone been listening to PF this afternoon?

Got my grandson this afternoon. We are watching Mickey Mouse. Same thing. JK. What's going on with PF?

PF talking about Houston Nutt, Penn State scandal and the LSU win. Praising Les Miles and dogging Nick Saban. About what you would expect. He thinks LSU and Bama are the two best teams and a rematch is possible.

How original.  ;)

:lol:

(http://media.al.com/birmingham-news/photo/-0ce4baff25bb50fc.JPG)

MW has two hands on the ball and clearly has possession.

(http://media.al.com/mobile-press-register/photo/10226354-standard.jpg)

MW clearly has possession.  LSU does not.

(http://media.al.com/mobile-press-register/photo/10226355-standard.jpg)

Another one.

(http://media.al.com/mobile-press-register/photo/10226356-standard.jpg)

This one has MW on the ground with possession of the ball.  Play over.

Then blown dead when his back hit the ground. Bama ball on the 1. Boom. TD. See ya bye, LSU.

I was just watching ESPNU and they showed a poll where 60% of the country would like to see a rematch.  I was surprised by that.

Dayum scrate!

I think the people should be heard.  :clap:

NCAA Playing Rule 2-4-1 (a):
A player "gains possession" when he secures the ball firmly by holding or controlling it while contacting the ground inbounds.The ball is then in player possession.

those pics make my stomach turn.

THEANKS COACHFOR THE PHOTOS..THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT MY EYES WITNESSED FROM MY NEARBY SEATS..THE REF SHOULD BE TARRED AND FEATHERED!!

shot from the other side


(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/11/31022004326.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/540360/7450679)



away from the play

(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/11/31022084577.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/540367/8186005)

I have watched that play over and over dozens of times.  Here is what I saw:

1.  M. Williams is wide open almost immediately.
2.  The receiver (B. Gibson) lined up in the slot on the strong side ran his route across the field.  The umpire was in the way and he went behind him, taking the DB deeper.  He probably should have gone in front of the umpire.  The umpire may have even picked the DB if he had done that.
3.  LSU overloaded the weak side and had guys running free toward Maze.  This was to be expected considering we only had two guys on the line on that side, and one of them was M. Williams running a pass route.  Maze had to get rid of the ball in a hurry.
4.  M. Williams was so wide open that Maze floated it out there to give him plenty of time to get under it and make the catch.  He was leaning backwards as he made the throw.  He put way too much air under the ball.
5.  In spite of this, the DB still gets there a split second late.  M. Williams catches the ball with BOTH hands.
6.  He controls the ball with both hands all the way to the ground.  It looks like it is being bobbled, but he has both hands on it securely.  The reason it looked bobbled was because the DB got his hands on the ball and was trying to jerk it away.  M. Williams kept both hands firmly on the ball through out the fall, although his hands were jostled around as the DB pulled on the ball.
7.  If M. Williams did not have the ball securely in both hands, the DB would have ripped it out.  The DB only had one hand in there initially and was trying to pull it out, but M. Williams had a firm grip and did not let him.
8.  M. Williams hits the ground on his back, and still has full control of the ball in both hands.  Photos taken by the press show him on his back with both hands firmly gripping the ball.  Sometime while they are on the ground the DB manages to get his other hand in there and takes the ball away as M. Williams is trying to get up.
9.  Neither the side judge nor the field judge make a ruling initially.  Both of them run in to mark the spot though like it was a reception.  Then the back judge comes running up from the end zone and rules it as an interception.  The back judge that makes the call is standing somewhere near the goal post, and from that angle the DB shields him from the ball.  He sees the DB's back, then sees the DB pop up with the ball.  He can't see M. Williams control the ball all the way to the ground.

I don't blame the refs, it is just one of those plays where it was hard to tell what happened.  It didn't become obvious to me until after the game was over after I had a chance to watch the play frame by frame and see the images taken by the photographers.  They got the call wrong, but it was an honest mistake.

That is also a great shot.  Clearly MW has both hands on the ball and is in control.  The DB has one hand about to hook behind the ball and the other hand on MW.

I blame this all on Jamos and his pals.  Clearly the REC did not make a generous enough donation to the officiating crew this week.

I blame refs. I was watching from section L using my new binoculars. Section L is even with the goal line. I was looking right down on th eplay. MW caught the ball, Reid came in and touched the ball with his right hand after it was caught. Like you said, MW held it firmly down to the turf. Once MW hit the turf Reid worked his left hand under the ball and even then couldn't pull ball away from MW. How the refs gave him possession is just unbelievable! It was first and goal, Alabama at the one! Everyone was celebrating the catch only to have those sorry ass SEC refs run in and turn around and FTU! If back judge couldn't see it and was blocked, he had no business ruling on the play!

Another thing that was bad, the instant replay refs didn't take anytime to review the play because they came back almost immediately with LSU ball.

BS! BS! BS!

Steve Shaw needs to issue every ref working for him a pair! Dumbasses!


I had a pair of Ziess and they cost more and not near as good as these Burris.

These make 1000 yards looks like 300.

They didn't review it very long at all.

I agree - an honest mistake... the first time. But they sealed their fate on that insulting excuse for a review. No disrespect, SC, but they offered a fraction of the time that play deserved to make a good call - the right call.

On another note, props on your analysis. What with my delicate sensibilities and all, I have not had the composure to watch any replays of that game yet...the wounds are slow to heal.
 :casablanca:

Another thing I missed SC. MW first caught the ball and then Reid touched it with his right hand as witnessed in this picture.

(http://media.al.com/birmingham-news/photo/-0ce4baff25bb50fc.JPG)

MW maintained contact with both hands on the ball the whole time. Then as they were falling to the one yardline, Reid took his right hand off the football and no longer maintained contact with the ball with either hand, and MW maintained contact with both hands the whole time. Reid has no hands touching football in this picture!

(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/11/31022004326.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/540360/7450679)

Then after they fall to the turf, Reid still has no hands touching the football and blind SEC Referee is in background watching the whole play. Referee is in next three pictures watching play unfold!

(http://media.al.com/mobile-press-register/photo/10226355-standard.jpg)

Then right before they make contact with turf, you can see Reid's left hand coming up but not yet touching the football.

(http://media.al.com/mobile-press-register/photo/10226354-standard.jpg)

(http://media.al.com/mobile-press-register/photo/10226356-standard.jpg)

This one is after MW hit the ground with possession of the ball and Reid is still pulling at football with his left hand.  Play over.

SEC referees are blind and should be fired!

Now these Ref's made a bad call on the play that helped to make a difference in the outcome of the game, shouldn't they at least be suspended. They cost us the money of the NCG possibly and they walk away. Kinda scares me, the Ref's can do any game they want to and help any team they want to. JMHO! RTR!

I never officiated FB, but I put in over 25 years with baseball at all levels, including college. When we had an unusual situation, both umps, or all 3 if we had a 3 man game, would consult to GET THE CALL RIGHT. This is where I think the refs messed up..if the back judge was blocked out so he could not see the ENTIRE play, he should have asked for help from his other refs..TO GET THE CALL RIGHT.

I think this was especially called for due to the importance of the game.

I think they messed it up..but that is football..it will not be the last time refs will miss a call.

It appeared to me that Williams had both hands on the ball as he hit the ground, and hitting the ground caused his right arm to move off the ball.  If you see in your photo, the ball appears to be held by Williams's left and and LSU's right hand, with Williams' right hand off the ball.  Apparently the refs' too-quick review saw the ball appear to move in Williams' hands and, coupled with this shot, decided that Williams did not have possesion.  However, this photo is after hitting the ground.  I thought it was a basic rule that, The Ground Cannot Cause a Fumble, which is the opposite of how the refs ruled here.