Crimson Red Sports

I just received a notice from Google that they have disabled all ads for the site because of a copyright violation.  The example page they listed was one of our daily scripture pages.  Apparently pasting bible passages is a violation of copyright law.  Ridiculous!

 >:(

I don't really make any money from the ads, but they do bring in enough to cover some of my overhead/expenses for keeping the site up and running.

I'm not sure what to do about this.  For the time being I may archive all of the daily scripture topics and remove them from the site.  If it turns out we really are in violation of copyright laws then we don't need it on here anyway.  If our topics are considered fair use for the purpose of education and discussion (which they should be) then maybe I can put them back on later.

It may be because we are quoting the NIV.  I know the King James is in the public domain.

 ???

Wow! Who owns the copyright to the NIV? They've got to be kidding.

Weird.
Of all things! 
I just knew my photos from all over the web were going to be the problem.

Let us know if there's anything else we're doing wrong.

... and pray for the bastids at Google.  :lol2:

Wow, I am so sorry for these people. Actually as most know I am a King James person anyway. I know what was being done was out of the goodness of heart. God please forgive these people who claim to own your Word. In Jesus name AMEN.
Also, is my daily prayers in anyway bad for the site. These come directly from my heart they are not copied from anywhere. God Bless!

I think the daily prayers are fine.  I just removed all of the daily scripture topics from the site.  I can put them back later if I find out they are OK.

Unfortunately the message from Google did not come from a person and there is no way to talk to a human.  So I am kind of stuck for now.

I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblica


If it was them complaining, they're going about "engaging" the wrong way.

(Hmmm, I hope my quoting this isn't a copyright infringement).  :unsure:

I have several NIV bibles in my house.  If the NIV really is the problem, I won't be buying any more.

Even if it is copyrighted, there are certain fair use exceptions for the purposes of education and public discussion.  Our usage was a text book case of LEGAL fair use.

I don't want to jump to conclusions though.  It could just be some computer over at google that went nuts without any input from Zondervan.  For that matter, anybody could post a complaint to google, even if they are not the copyright holder.

Well now I must say I sent them an e-mail asking how they could produce a Bible containing the Word of God for money only? It was suppose to be shared but if others could not copy their verses and share them then it is a sad time. Now I mentioned no names but I want them to know that Gods' Word is not being stolen it is only shared. Try Jack Graham's site for his sermons are copying the verses. I am so sad about this and I will pray for these people. RTR!

Busted.  :( I wonder if this is how Paul felt when they put him in jail for spreading the gospel.

I had no idea someone would be concerned about sharing the bible on the internet, NIV or any other translation.

I used Biblegateway for all my posts. I just looked to see if their is anything on there website about copyrights and there is.

After doing a little looking all common English translations are copyrighted except King James. As SC said it is public domain.

I won't make any assumptions about what happened here.

I will say that I like the ESV because in addition to being an excellent and readable translation, Crossway has a free ESV app for devices and generally charges much less for their physical Bibles than other translations.  A few years ago when I was using the NASB the apps were $19.99 for an electronic download with no printing or shipping costs.  I've also heard that if you call Crossway and tell them you're buying Bibles or other books to give away that you can get a deep discount.

I finally figured out how to get in touch with google to tell them we have removed the NIV posts.  We'll see what they say.

OK they were kind enought to write me back and here it is:

Ricky,

 

Thank you for your email and concerns regarding the copyright of the New International Version of the Holy Bible. I wanted to provide you with some background regarding the NIV, to hopefully clear up any confusion there may be.

 

All modern Bible translations are copyrighted and I have tried to outline the key points below:

 

1.       Copyright means that no one may change or amend the text, nor may anyone publish the text without permission. The NIV translators and publishers stand by the accuracy of the text and will not permit it to be corrupted or changed in any way. There are many who might wish to change a verse or passage to suit their agenda or theological leaning, and copyright prevents such distortions.  

 

2.       God’s Word did not come to us in English or any other modern language but was originally recorded in Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic (another ancient Middle-Eastern language similar to Hebrew) and Koine Greek. Therefore, the original texts have to be translated for the majority of us to have direct access to God’s Word and in the past there was a time when only an elite group of scholars had the privilege of being able to read the Scriptures.

 

3.       The NIV translators worked from more than 5,000 complete or partial manuscripts and papyri to provide us with a translation which is as accurate as possible. This process was started in 1968 and took 10 years to complete, and this does not take into account more than 10 years of planning prior to 1968. The cost of the NIV translation project was well into the millions of dollars.  Biblica continues to translate God’s Word into many languages enabling people around the world to read the Bible in their heart language: In addition we distribute literally millions of Scriptures without charge throughout many nations each year. Biblica is a non-profit organization and could not function as it does without recouping the cost of its translation projects, scripture products and ministry initiatives from the royalties received for commercial use of its texts as well as through the generous gifts of donors.

 

4.       Having said all of the above, we never knowingly hinder an individual’s use of the NIV for evangelism or their personal study; however, if someone desires to profit from the sale of the NIV or other Biblica translations we do charge a royalty.  

 

I hope this answers your concerns adequately.

 

God bless,

 

Brett Davis

Associate, International Rights & Permissions

Biblica US, Inc.

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This E-Mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this communication in error, please do not distribute and delete the original message. Please notify the sender by E-Mail at the address shown. Thank you for your compliance.

 
The above was in response to Ricky's question below:

Comments: I thought the Word of God was to be spread in all and any ways. How can someone who copies your scripture and adds them to another site so other can read and find hope. It is sad when have the Bible for money not to be shared at will. May God touch you in anyway he sees fit.

(Edited by pmull to remove Ricky's personal information.)


Thank you so much pmull. God Bless. RTR!

Ricky, you or one of the mods may want to delete your personal information from the message above.

I don't think that Biblica's policy concerning a version of the Word that they spent millions to produce is unfair.  And based on the email above from Biblica, I don't think they'd have an issue with what was being done on this site.  I do think this is most likely an instance of an automated function of Google being overly conservative with copyright infrigement.  

If any of you have the popular "Bible" app (from YouVersion), some versions are a little more restrictive than others.  They offer (just estimating) 50-60 versions of an English translation, of which about 30-40 are downloadable to use on your phone while offline.  The NIV is one that is more controlled and not downloadable, so each time you read a passage it is downloaded from a controlled server.  I have 10-15 versions downloaded, but I do like to use the NIV often times when I have a data connections (unfortunately the connection is poor inside the church I worship with).  I do love the ability to flip back and forth between several versions with ease to get the maximum possible effect of the Word.  Sometimes a little different wording just seems to strike a little more passion or conviction within me.

I think Biblica gave Ricky a good, fair, accurate and honest response to his question. I thought their response was professional and in good taste.

I don't think we broke any of their rules since no one profitted from the posts. Our intentions were good although against the law. I agree with HL that a Google search of some type flaged these posts and Google trying to do their job asked for it to be stopped.

Hey HL, thanks so much. I did not realize I posted all my personal stuff. I know you guys are fine, but as you think some people would not be so friendly. Again thanks my friend. RTR!

I don't think what we did was against the law, actually.  Nor against their policy.  You can post ANY copyrighted material for the purposes of education and public discussion.  That is exactly what we were doing.

However, there isn't really anything I can do about it.  I'm sure this was all computer generated, and it won't change unless real live people get involved and override the computers.

Hey Sc, I was not working to get by the computers, what hit me was the wording and it was almost to me like they were keeping Gods' Word for charge. That really hit me in the heart and I just had to know who was running that kind of company. I do hope this will be a help for us all when we copy and paste. I know it will me, cause I'll come a hollerin SC, SC, what is right? rofl. RTR!

After thinking about this some more I'm not sure if we were within the law or not.  Maybe we were wrong after all.  When you think about what we did on a daily basis, it was no big deal and certainly a fair use.  I believe their policy even allows for that explicitly as long as you don't copy over 500 verses or a complete book.  So a chapter it certainly within that allowed range.

But on the other hand, when you think of all of the postings together, we had almost the entire New Testament posted on here.  In light of that I am now leaning toward thinking we were in the wrong, although it was certainly an honest mistake by well meaning people.  I suppose the correct way to handle it would have been to just post a link to biblegateway.com each day since they have a license to show the NIV.

The ads are back. Does that mean we are back in good grace with Google?

You're probably on the right track with your thinking, SC.  Nothing malicious was being done, but slowly but surely the entire Bible was being accumulated here.  Just linking Bible Gateway seems like a good idea.

Yes, I got the notification from them a couple of hours ago.

SC I hope a Super Bible that was given me by a friend of mine. It has about 11 or 12 versions of the Bible and is really useful to me. I wonder if in your opinion I could copy scripture from there and put it on daily? If you had rather not then no problem. I use the King James scripture off the Bible but it is the kind I can compare all other type bibles along side each other. Well done my friend on handling this situation. RTR!

Excellent. I feel better now since we all know who posted all those chapters of the Bible that got us in trouble.  :-[

I used to carry a bible like that too, Ricky.  I think it is called a parallel bible.  I like it because it doesn't matter what version the preacher reads from I have it with me.

Now I have the bible gateway software on my iPad, so I have pretty much all of the translations on there.  And the iPad is much lighter than the bible I used to carry.

As far as posting scriptures, I think we can post the King James all we want.  It is in the public domain.  Any of the other translations we want to use will probably need to be a link to biblegateway.com for the actual text.  I still have all of our old bible threads archived.  I will try to patch them up with either a link or King James instead of the NIV text and move them back when I get a chance.  There were 482 topics that I removed so it might take a while.

OK if I can help anyway please feel free to call on me. I do not want to step on pmull and all his wonderful work. If he would like to continue posting in the King James Version I would to see it. God Bless you all for trying to spread the Gospel. GOD BLESS.