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Around Campus => The Quad => Topic started by: Marshal Dillon on July 12, 2012, 03:44:41 PM



Title: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Marshal Dillon on July 12, 2012, 03:44:41 PM
They have a poll in which folks were asked if they deserved the death penalty. Of over 63,000 votes (so far), 73% voted yes. Good article.



Quote
Again and again, the 269-page report by Freeh’s group showed how Penn State officials had a “callous and shocking disregard for child victims.” They lied, then lied about their lies. Even now, the loyalty to the lie about Paterno being a man of integrity (despite evidence proving he lied to a grand jury regarding his knowledge of the 1998 investigation) is galling.



Quote
Everything that has happened to Penn State so far is a half measure. And I do not believe in half measures for child rapists or institutions that harbor them. Neither should you.

What is a full measure, you ask.

The death penalty, as delivered by the NCAA, is a good starting point. I used to believe this was too harsh. After listening to those boys testify and then reading details in the Freeh reports like Sandusky having special seats to Paterno’s record-breaking game in 2011 and an email from then-athletic director Tim Curley saying, after talking with Paterno, he no longer believed reporting Sandusky to child authorities was the right course of action, I have changed my mind.


http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212



(http://youreducationdoctor.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/sandusky-paterno1.jpg)


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: BAMAWV on July 12, 2012, 07:07:38 PM
Everyone has heard the saying 'what goes around comes around' but rarely if ever do you see it happen. These people have made a storied history out of cheating other teams in Happy Valley. Referees were hand picked by their adoration levels of CJP and sometimes are even blood related. Never have the Paterno folks issued an apology or an acknowledgement of the flagrant cheating that has become legendary in scope.  I have been jumping up and down for years, furious about the extent of home cooking that takes place there. The Paterno mafia is finally getting what they deserve. But don't go overboard by taking away the weekly ass kicking they will be getting starting this fall.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: McBaman on July 12, 2012, 07:13:15 PM
Well, let's see now...  You have recruiting violations and such vs. kids being raped.  Schools get whacked for recruiting violations and SMU even got the death penalty for some of it's stuff, but there was no sexual abuse there that I recall.  So unless you think recruiting violations and such are WORSE than a years long program of abusing kids, then NCAA has to go with the death penalty. 

If NCAA doesn't do this, then there is no point to NCAA.  (Oops...we already know that don't we!)


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Marshal Dillon on July 12, 2012, 08:13:52 PM
Well, let's see now...  You have recruiting violations and such vs. kids being raped.  Schools get whacked for recruiting violations and SMU even got the death penalty for some of it's stuff, but there was no sexual abuse there that I recall.  So unless you think recruiting violations and such are WORSE than a years long program of abusing kids, then NCAA has to go with the death penalty. 

If NCAA doesn't do this, then there is no point to NCAA.  (Oops...we already know that don't we!)



Exactly. I was thinking the same thing. However, this is a Big Ten team and we know they are "special" and far superior to us rubes in the SEC & Big 12. In the last 5-7 years, we have had major violations in Michigan football & basketball, Ohio State football, several sports in Minnesota & Wisconsin, and now this with Penn State, but for some reason nothing seems to stick on the Big Ten. Amazing.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: N.AL-Tider on July 12, 2012, 08:57:39 PM
I think the death penalty for the football team would be wrong.  After all, the players would actually be the ones that are being punished for the deeds of the coaches and administration.  I would suggest that the NCAA mandate that the entire football coaching staff, the athletic director(s) and the school presidents and anyone else that has any duties that support any athletics should be permenantly removed from their employment.  The coaching staff could be replaced and the program resume hopefully on the straight and narrow...  Yes, this would still punish the players that are innocent but to a much smaller degree.  The people that are at least partially responsible for the Sandusky syndrome would be punished severely by never being allowed to coach at any level again... just my .02   :dunno:


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Marshal Dillon on July 12, 2012, 09:07:06 PM
There should be some type of stiff sanction, but I don't know what it could be. Penn Sate's reputation has been destroyed and completely embarrassed and shamed, Paterno's legacy has been nuked, and Penn State will end up paying many millions to these rape victims and they are the pariah of the sports world. What else can be done to them?



 :dunno:


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Jamos on July 12, 2012, 09:17:09 PM
What is the definition of Lack of Institutional Control of a football program?


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Chechem on July 12, 2012, 09:19:50 PM
What is the definition of Lack of Institutional Control of a football program?

Seriously?
It's when the football program calls the shots, not the university administration.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Jamos on July 12, 2012, 09:23:45 PM
What is the definition of Lack of Institutional Control of a football program?

Seriously?
It's when the football program calls the shots, not the university administration.

Did the head coach (football program) not know what was going on and failed to do anything?


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Chechem on July 12, 2012, 09:28:29 PM
What is the definition of Lack of Institutional Control of a football program?
Seriously?
It's when the football program calls the shots, not the university administration.
Did the head coach (football program) not know what was going on and failed to do anything?
I haven't read the report, but according to the talking heads today it seems Paterno convinced the administrators to not report the Sandusky accusations to child welfare or the police.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Marshal Dillon on July 12, 2012, 09:32:53 PM
The NCAA has previously stated they would use the death penalty only on teams who are on probation and commit major infractions. That eliminates Penn State.


 ???


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: ALTideUp on July 12, 2012, 09:33:42 PM
ATU Prediction Time

It's neither here nor there. The PSU board of trustees is going to suspend their football program. It will probably be 2 years. There. I am on record.

Here's why. Things are really bad right now. And their bragging about the influx of donations actually hurts their public image as a culture that cares more about football than kids. And things are about to get worse. The trials of the two administrators, aided by evidence uncovered by Freeh, will no doubt make worse a situation that you'd think couldn't really get much worse. To all these things add that the NCAA is putting the loaded gun in their hands and saying do the right thing. That is, they will seriously be considered for the death penalty, which will further tarnish their image and delay their recovery. The BOT, with some friendly advice from Harrisburg, will suspend football at PSU.



Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Jamos on July 12, 2012, 09:39:45 PM
What is the definition of Lack of Institutional Control of a football program?
Seriously?
It's when the football program calls the shots, not the university administration.
Did the head coach (football program) not know what was going on and failed to do anything?
I haven't read the report, but according to the talking heads today it seems Paterno convinced the administrators to not report the Sandusky accusations to child welfare or the police.

That is my point. When Bama found out about the textbook scam they immediatly reported this to the NCAA and suspended the players that were involved. The NCAA still hammered Bama and their reasoning was that the coaches should have known what was going on and it shouldn't have ever happen. It was the coaches responsibility then as it was the coaches responsibility at Penn State when they were told what was going on in the shower that day in the players locker room.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Chechem on July 12, 2012, 09:52:33 PM
What is the definition of Lack of Institutional Control of a football program?
Seriously?
It's when the football program calls the shots, not the university administration.
Did the head coach (football program) not know what was going on and failed to do anything?
I haven't read the report, but according to the talking heads today it seems Paterno convinced the administrators to not report the Sandusky accusations to child welfare or the police.

That is my point. When Bama found out about the textbook scam they immediatly reported this to the NCAA and suspended the players that were involved. The NCAA still hammered Bama and their reasoning was that the coaches should have known what was going on and it shouldn't have ever happen. It was the coaches responsibility then as it was the coaches responsibility at Penn State when they were told what was going on in the shower that day in the players locker room.
I know, Jamos. 
But PSU is in the Big 10; Bama in the SEC.  Different rules, different punishment.
I think ATU might be onto something.  PSU may self-punish their football team.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Marshal Dillon on July 12, 2012, 09:56:12 PM
ATU Prediction Time

It's neither here nor there. The PSU board of trustees is going to suspend their football program. It will probably be 2 years. There. I am on record.

Here's why. Things are really bad right now. And their bragging about the influx of donations actually hurts their public image as a culture that cares more about football than kids. And things are about to get worse. The trials of the two administrators, aided by evidence uncovered by Freeh, will no doubt make worse a situation that you'd think couldn't really get much worse. To all these things add that the NCAA is putting the loaded gun in their hands and saying do the right thing. That is, they will seriously be considered for the death penalty, which will further tarnish their image and delay their recovery. The BOT, with some friendly advice from Harrisburg, will suspend football at PSU.




No way do I see them quitting football on their own. They're a Big Ten team, so they are too self-important to quit.



Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: ALTideUp on July 12, 2012, 11:02:31 PM
ATU Prediction Time

It's neither here nor there. The PSU board of trustees is going to suspend their football program. It will probably be 2 years. There. I am on record.

Here's why. Things are really bad right now. And their bragging about the influx of donations actually hurts their public image as a culture that cares more about football than kids. And things are about to get worse. The trials of the two administrators, aided by evidence uncovered by Freeh, will no doubt make worse a situation that you'd think couldn't really get much worse. To all these things add that the NCAA is putting the loaded gun in their hands and saying do the right thing. That is, they will seriously be considered for the death penalty, which will further tarnish their image and delay their recovery. The BOT, with some friendly advice from Harrisburg, will suspend football at PSU.




No way do I see them quitting football on their own. They're a Big Ten team, so they are too self-important to quit.



I bucked the crowd and called the Petrino hiring, and I like my chances on this one. Admittedly, this is a longer shot, but I give myself a 45% chance of being right. They would, of course, have to negotiate with the NCAA that their player could transfer immediately and play immediately if they chose.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: ALTideUp on July 12, 2012, 11:32:51 PM
Here is the text of PSU's BOT response to the Freeh Report. It has undertones, of "okay, glad that's behind us". Not a good sign for them.

Quote
hursday, July 12, 2012
SCRANTON, Pa. -- Today’s comprehensive report is sad and sobering in that it concludes that at the moment of truth, people in positions of authority and responsibility did not put the welfare of children first. The Board of Trustees, as the group that has paramount accountability for overseeing and ensuring the proper functioning and governance of the University, accepts full responsibility for the failures that occurred. The Board, in cooperation with the Administration, will take every action to ensure that events like these never happen again in our university community.
The focus of all of our actions going forward will be on driving a culture of honesty, integrity, responsible leadership and accountability at all levels and within all units of our institution.
Judge Freeh's report concludes that certain people at the University who were in a position to protect children or confront the predator failed to do so. There can be no ambiguity about that. The defenseless victims and their families are at the forefront of our thoughts and prayers. We are deeply sorry for the failure to protect these vulnerable young boys from the pain and anguish they suffered. At the same time, we are filled with admiration for the bravery shown by the young men and their families who came forward to ensure that justice will be done.
While today’s issuance of the Freeh Report provides some level of clarity for our community, it does not undo the pain that the victims of Jerry Sandusky have experienced, and continue to experience. We will continue to offer counseling to Mr. Sandusky’s victims, listen to them and take affirmative steps to address the harm they have suffered.
Beyond our campuses, the University is undertaking a number of actions to help build greater awareness of the societal issue of child sexual abuse. We are partnering with the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape {PCAR} and have also created the Center for the Protection of Children at the Hershey Medical Center. Penn State University intends to be a constructive leader in preventing, reporting and responding to such abuse. This is a problem that plagues our nation, and we have a special duty to increase awareness, prevention and treatment of child sexual abuse.
Judge Freeh’s investigation was intended to identify where failures occurred and what changes should be made for the future. As the Freeh report noted, the University has already taken steps to begin addressing some of the shortcomings.
The Board of Trustees acknowledges that it failed to create an environment of accountability and transparency and did not have optimal reporting procedures or committee structures. Beginning in March 2011 and continuing until the publication of the Grand Jury presentment in November 2011, the Board failed to make proper inquiry of President Spanier and others regarding the Sandusky matter. As a result, the Board was unprepared to deal with the events that occurred in November 2011.
The Board has begun taking a more active oversight role and has implemented specific oversight committees, focused on Risk, Audit, Legal, Compliance, Academic Excellence, Governance and Human Resources. Furthermore, the Board is committed to greater transparency and communications with the entire University community.
Additionally, the University Administration has strengthened policies and programs involving minors, child abuse and mandated reporter training; ensuring a process for prompt reporting of abuse and sexual misconduct; hiring a new, full-time Clery Compliance Coordinator and providing Clery Act training for employees; and establishing a position of, and commencing a national search for, a director of University Compliance. Further information can be found at http://www.progress.psu.edu.
In the weeks ahead, the University will carefully review and consider each of the report’s recommendations. Tomorrow at its regularly scheduled meeting, the Board of Trustees will consider a series of immediate next steps. President Rodney Erickson has appointed three members of his senior leadership team to coordinate and implement operational changes suggested by the Freeh Report.
As the Freeh Report notes Penn State “is an outstanding institution, nationally renowned for its excellence in academics and research.” Nothing in this report detracts from the many significant accomplishments of our faculty, staff, students and alumni. We also remain proud of the accomplishments of Penn State’s student athletes over many years, and we reaffirm the fundamental premise that academic excellence and athletic achievement are wholly consistent and complementary goals.
With the release of the Freeh Report we are beginning to correct our failures, promote healing and build a stronger tomorrow for Penn State. We are continuing the process of addressing the most painful chapter in the University’s history so that we can heal and move forward.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: BAMAWV on July 12, 2012, 11:55:29 PM
The Penn State response would lead one to believe there was a systemic breakdown and that they now have the necessary guidelines, procedures, and protocols in place to prevent this from happening in the future. LOL. There was no breakdown in the PSU system, just that the PSU program included so many self absorbed cowards that failed to do what almost any other American would have done inheritantly,-- call the law and keep calling until the children were no longer being raped in the middle of the athletic department.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Marshal Dillon on July 13, 2012, 07:48:46 AM
The Penn State response would lead one to believe there was a systemic breakdown and that they now have the necessary guidelines, procedures, and protocols in place to prevent this from happening in the future. LOL. There was no breakdown in the PSU system, just that the PSU program included so many self absorbed cowards that failed to do what almost any other American would have done inheritantly,-- call the law and keep calling until the children were no longer being raped in the middle of the athletic department.



Exactly!! The bottom line, no one wanted to cross Paterno. It was better to allow little  boys to be raped than to upset Paterno. Incredible.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Old Tider on July 13, 2012, 11:44:10 AM
USA Today this morning says the program should be shut down for at least a year. It reminds that this is worse than SMU's violation that drew the death penalty years ago.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Marshal Dillon on July 13, 2012, 11:48:07 AM
USA Today this morning says the program should be shut down for at least a year. It reminds that this is worse than SMU's violation that drew the death penalty years ago.


I hope all the major media start making pressure on Penn State. If ESPN made an announcement not to carry any Penn St. games for two years, wow. Let's see if this keeps building.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: BAMAWV on July 13, 2012, 05:40:17 PM
USA Today this morning says the program should be shut down for at least a year. It reminds that this is worse than SMU's violation that drew the death penalty years ago.


I hope all the major media start making pressure on Penn State. If ESPN made an announcement not to carry any Penn St. games for two years, wow. Let's see if this keeps building.

LOL. Why stop with football. Just torch the town itself. LOL.  PSU fans are already ashamed to admit they pull for them or went to school there. I've been as vocal as anyone, including MD, but enough is enough. The criminal courts are speaking, the civil courts will speak, and the voice of public opinion is roaring (lions roar).


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: 2Stater on July 13, 2012, 05:49:18 PM
The main perpetrator is in prison and one is dead. Punish the others, but why punish the kids on the team? PSU is toast right now, anyway. Who the hell wants to go there now after all this. Just sit back and watch them implode.  :popcorn2:


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: BAMAWV on July 13, 2012, 06:33:48 PM
Imagine an assistant PSU coach calling the home of a recruit and hearing, "You are certainly welcome to come see my son and discuss opportunities at Penn St.. But I'll have to ask, due to the pedaphile history of things up there, that you only visit when either my wife or I are present."



Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: pmull on July 13, 2012, 06:41:32 PM
USA Today this morning says the program should be shut down for at least a year. It reminds that this is worse than SMU's violation that drew the death penalty years ago.


I hope all the major media start making pressure on Penn State. If ESPN made an announcement not to carry any Penn St. games for two years, wow. Let's see if this keeps building.

LOL. Why stop with football. Just torch the town itself. LOL.  PSU fans are already ashamed to admit they pull for them or went to school there. I've been as vocal as anyone, including MD, but enough is enough. The criminal courts are speaking, the civil courts will speak, and the voice of public opinion is roaring (lions roar).

A guy from Pittsburg called into Finebaum this afternoon and said Penn St could lose their Accreditation over this.  :dunno: That is much more to worry about than the NCAA.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: ALTideUp on July 13, 2012, 07:01:47 PM
To be completely technical, those accreditation agencies care about the AD somehow compromising the integrity of the academics. That's not at issue here. On the other hand the NCAA cares about competitive fairness etc. and that is not the issue here. So somehow the PSU admin and AD managed to commit one of the longest, deepest, most heinous failures of institutional control we've ever seen, and yet it falls smack in between the regulatory purview of all the oversight organizations.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: Marshal Dillon on July 13, 2012, 08:02:21 PM
I have been going back & forth on what are some appropriate actions to occur against Penn State. What about these as a whole:

1)  Have Penn State forfeit all games for the last 2 years, thus depriving Paterno the record for all time wins. This suggestion was mentioned by Finebaum.

2)  All the BOT members resign or be coerced to by the Governor.

3)  A 2 year self-imposed bowl ban.

4)  Destroy the Paterno statue.

5)  Remove the Paterno name from any and all buildings/facilities on Penn State.

6)  A mandatory age 70 retirement for all athletic coaches.


What do you guys think of this? Too much, not enough, or add/delete some things?

 ???


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: XBAMA on July 13, 2012, 09:12:02 PM
list looks great MD , I made a couple of minor adjustments  :dunno:

I have been going back & forth on what are some appropriate actions to occur against Penn State. What about these as a whole:

1)  Have Penn State forfeit all games for the last 14 years, thus depriving Paterno the record for all time wins. This suggestion was mentioned by Finebaum.

2)  All the BOT members resign and be caressed  by the Sandusky.
also for 14 years.

3)  A 14 year self-imposed bowl ban.

4)  Destroy the Paterno statue and make Sandusky eat it .

5)  Remove the Paterno name from any and all buildings/facilities on Penn State. rename them with cartoon characters  names , kids choice .

6)  A mandatory age 70 retirement for all athletic coaches.
except in the SEC .


What do you guys think of this? Too much, not enough, or add/delete some things?

 ???


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: ALTideUp on July 13, 2012, 09:29:58 PM
I have been going back & forth on what are some appropriate actions to occur against Penn State. What about these as a whole:

1)  Have Penn State forfeit all games for the last 2 years, thus depriving Paterno the record for all time wins. This suggestion was mentioned by Finebaum.

2)  All the BOT members resign or be coerced to by the Governor.

3)  A 2 year self-imposed bowl ban.

4)  Destroy the Paterno statue.

5)  Remove the Paterno name from any and all buildings/facilities on Penn State.

6)  A mandatory age 70 retirement for all athletic coaches.


What do you guys think of this? Too much, not enough, or add/delete some things?

 ???

I like 2, 4, & 5.  2 should have happened months ago. As for 6, no need to impugn older people. Age has nothing to do with what happened.

Here's why I don't like 1, even though some of those wins may not have occurred had Paterno and PSU acted responsibly from the outset, I doubt the effect would have been that dramatic. My bias would be to let that record stand. it's something good that he achieved, just like the good he did for his many players, and the good he did for the University. I do not want to accuse PSU fans about having their heads in the sand about the bad that has happened, and then stick my head in the sand regarding the good that Paterno did.

I don't think the bowl ban is enough, and I continue to favor suspending the program. I have heard Finebaum's arguments against it, and they mostly focus on the lack of any governing rules that would justify that. But here's why I think it has to happen, by the hand of the university, for the good of the university:

Everything I hear from the PSU fans, their homer media, or President, or BOT suggests that they still don't get. They are in denial. They literally need that football program like a meth-head needs crank. Every argument you hear, every angle they take, coincidentally ends with the conclusion that it would be unwise, unfair, ineffective, uncalled for, unjustified, illegal..... to do anything to harm the football program. They still don't get how much harm was caused to preserve the football program's good name. They say they care, but nothing about their approach indicates that they get it. They are going to establish an institute on the prevention of child abuse. That's rich.  Is that hubris or psychosis? Why don't they hire the captains of the exxon valdez and the costa concordia to team teach a course on safe boating.

They literally need to be de-toxed from PSU football. Suspension is really the only thing that is going to get their attention and make them realize that their zeal corrupted the whole community to the extreme. The argument that the wrong doers have been or will be punished, sued etc. is crap. As you yourself implied in another post, MD, this mess could only have occurred in a community where everyone, the fans, bought in. That's why the janitors were terrified, not because of 4 crusty old white guys who couldn't give a crap about the janitors.

And to be fair, if all this happened here, we would be similarly exposed as insanely and irrationally dependent on our football team.


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: XBAMA on July 13, 2012, 09:57:37 PM
PSU's new media relations person ? 


(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/7/19413291498.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/1198216/5569471)



the kids cheer !     :clap:

(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/7/19413382270.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/1198232/4566028)


the book ...


(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/7/19413405247.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/1198235/1917717)


Title: Re: Penn State Should Get Death Penalty-Fox Sports Article
Post by: pmull on July 14, 2012, 07:33:30 AM
I have been going back & forth on what are some appropriate actions to occur against Penn State. What about these as a whole:

1)  Have Penn State forfeit all games for the last 2 years, thus depriving Paterno the record for all time wins. This suggestion was mentioned by Finebaum.

2)  All the BOT members resign or be coerced to by the Governor.

3)  A 2 year self-imposed bowl ban.

4)  Destroy the Paterno statue.

5)  Remove the Paterno name from any and all buildings/facilities on Penn State.

6)  A mandatory age 70 retirement for all athletic coaches.


What do you guys think of this? Too much, not enough, or add/delete some things?

 ???

I like 1-5. I'm not sure about the manatory retirement age. I also think they should lose 10 scholarships for three years. I'm not for the death penalty but they need to be punished till it hurts.