Rule changes proposal could slow down HUNH, make targeting foul consistant

[pmull]

Maybe you should call Larry because I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Says the guy who thinks Grant is doing a bang up job.

Firstly, comparing basketball, and most certainly baseball, to football is like comparing apples to cats.

Just b/c you do not like my answers does not make me incorrect.

Call Peyton Manning and ask him about HUNH in football, and from the pro set no less.

You are going to honestly claim that referees hold balls for extended periods of time in basketball games to prevent the offensive team from a quick inbound pass?

With a few exceptions, the only time a referee holds the ball in a basketball game until both teams are completely set is on the opening tip.

How about soccer?  How about rugby?  How about volleyball?

Those are all sports, in addition to basketball, where the offensive team is generally allowed to move without the readiness of the defense being an issue.

You wanted sports, right?

Should a rule also be put in place that limits the number of running backs, or receivers, on the field in the event that the defense does not have enough serviceable secondary players, or linebackers, to adequately cover the offensive players in that particular offensive package?

Running a no huddle like Payton Manning and several NFL teams to is not the "hurry up". NFL officials do a good job of dictating pace. College officials let offenses move at a pace that not only the defense is not set but the refs are also out of position.

In basketball refs will allow time for a defensive player to tie his shoe before putting the ball in play if necessary. In volleyball the server does not rush to serve trying to catch the opposing team out of position. That would be considered poor sportsmanship. You may be right about soccer and rugby. The next time I watch an entire game of either of those sports will be my first time.

We don't agree on this. Nothing wrong with that.

[2Stater]

"I'm a man, I'm 40" weighs in.

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The no huddle, fast tempo style has changed the game of CFB. Our sport has exploded in popularity with high scoring games & packed stadiums.

BS! The most watched games in CF are the Bama/LSU type games. If the truth be known and people are honest, most would tell you they would like to see more defense. The Big 12 and all their HUNH teams have become irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

[pmull]

Ellis Johnson comments when he was DC for South Carolina. I wonder how he feels now that he is working for auburn?

Johnson said, “One thing that has gotten into it that I’ve been pretty outspoken, that I really think is starting to deteriorate some of college football is the hurry up offenses.  There is nothing wrong a pace and speeding up the play on the operation side. I get that.”

“But what’s happening now with the rules is that you can snap it as soon as you want to or you can sit on it for 40 seconds, and there is no in-between.”

“Canadian ball is very fast-paced, but the offense can’t sit there all day long.  They have a 20 second limit. The NFL cut it out with Buffalo in the 90’s, they kind of put some cold water on it a little bit with the Colts not too many years ago.  What they realized is they’re taking the game of football and turning it into soccer or lacrosse.  There’s nothing wrong with those sports, but that’s not football.”

"What it's about now is who can snap the football before the other team lines up.  You can’t hardly get your players on and off the field.  You can’t get your signals in and out.  It’s become who has the best signal system or verbiage system. “

“Frankly, I don’t know what that proves except someone has a better verbiage package.  It’s not about blocking, tackling, running, route running, throwing, and so forth. It’s something the college football world needs to look at.”

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[pmull]

The NFL's response to Chip Kelly's offense.

NFL officials aren't going to rush to spot the ball just because Kelly's Philadelphia Eagles have rushed to the line. The officials will make sure that between-plays procedures are followed.

"We have to make sure teams understand that they don't control the tempo, our officials do," Dean Blandino, the league's vice president of officiating, told the Journal. "We're going through our normal ball mechanics, we aren't going to rush [unless] it's in the two minute drill."

Teams can't snap the ball until the officials signal that they're ready. All 32 teams have been made aware of this, Blandino told the Journal. He added that Kelly did not show any "overconcern" when he was briefed. "They (the Eagles) had questions about what the parameters were going to be," Blandino told the Journal. "It's going to be different from college."

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[roll tide roll]

Running a no huddle like Payton Manning and several NFL teams to is not the "hurry up".

Come on.  A no huddle is a "hurry up" offense.

NFL officials do a good job of dictating pace.

I just do not think the refs should be the ultimate arbiter for the pace of the game.  

but the refs are also out of position.

I find this to be a valid argument.

In basketball refs will allow time for a defensive player to tie his shoe before putting the ball in play if necessary.

Accommodations of this sort are made in football as well.

In volleyball the server does not rush to serve trying to catch the opposing team out of position.

They also do not unnecessarily wait for the opposition to discuss strategy and set position.

Comparing sports that are only similar in the sense that they involve teams and are are played on a plain (court/field) does not constitute a sound basis for a comparative discussion.

That would be considered poor sportsmanship

Sportsmanship is another issue.

 We don't agree on this

Clearly.

Nothing wrong with that.

Most assuredly, I respect your opinion and enjoy the discussion.

Allow me to present you with something for thought.
-The rule will allow for the referee to hold play for 10 seconds

On a 12 play drive that would amount 2 minutes of clock time.

Over the course of the game a very large portion (5+ minutes) of time could be lost b/c of a referee's opinion of what constitutes readiness.  That is 2 possessions, one for each team, at a minimum, and constitutes a significant loss of offensive production.  

With as subjective as so many calls are in football presently (that lead to fans talking about being cheated, or having to play against the refs) I do not think that it is a good idea to add another layer of human error/involvement to the game.

As an aside, I was not born when Coach Bryant installed the wishbone and subsequently began winning with it.  Does anyone remember if there was a call for rule changes to lessen the advantage given to a team who ran the wishbone offense?

[2Stater]

As an aside, I was not born when Coach Bryant installed the wishbone and subsequently began winning with it.  Does anyone remember if there was a call for rule changes to lessen the advantage given to a team who ran the wishbone offense?

RTR, I do not recall anyone calling for a change in rules with the Wishbone.

There will always be a difference of opinion about this rule. I for one can't technically see all no huddle offenses being considered hurry up. If you look at Peyton and the Broncos, especially since he checks off so much, there is nothing hurry up about them.

Some people don't think that the 10 second rule will make that much difference, but what it will do, is guarantee that the defense has 10 seconds to substitute. The reason I'm for it is that I want to see the best that both sides have on every play.

[pmull]

My problem with the HUNH is that the offense runs to line up. If they catch the defense not lined up yet they run a set play. If the defense is ready they take their time and get the call from the sideline. This type of offense is not allowed in high school or NFL. No huddles are run at every level but only after an official puts the ball in play. IMO college refs need to determine the pace of play just like the NFL.

[roll tide roll]

I for one can't technically see all no huddle offenses being considered hurry up.

Sure, but technically a no huddle is a hurry up.  Whether it is executed in that manner is entirely situational and varies from team to team and play to play.  A HUNH team does not always run an offense that is true to the definition of HUNH.

Some people don't think that the 10 second rule will make that much difference, but what it will do, is guarantee that the defense has 10 seconds to substitute. The reason I'm for it is that I want to see the best that both sides have on every play.

The interesting thing is that the 10 second rule will shorten (number of plays) the game, which is something the NCAA has been trying to accomplish for years.

If they are going to have a 10 second break they should just hold the ball for 10 seconds.  It is simply ridiculous that a referee will hold a ball for 10 seconds of game clock after every play.

The reason I'm for it is that I want to see the best that both sides have on every play.

I see that side of the argument.  I also believe that the best team wins 99.9% of the time.  Usually when the best team does not win is when human error is involved.

My problem with the HUNH is that the offense runs to line up. If they catch the defense not lined up yet they run a set play.

How many times have you yelled for someone to "hurry up and snap the ball" because the defense was clearly out of alignment and not ready to defend?

If the defense is ready they take their time and get the call from the sideline. This type of offense is not allowed in high school or NFL.

Adapt, or die.  This is not high school or the NFL.

Coach Saban and Coach Smart both said that the reason BAMA lost to boogerU is b/c the players did not play their assignments.  boogerU's TD to tie is a perfect example.

No huddles are run at every level but only after an official puts the ball in play.

Like I said, my biggest problem with the rule is that it allows the referees to run time off of the game clock.  If you want a 10 second break between plays, then have a 10 second break between plays.

IMO college refs need to determine the pace of play just like the NFL.

So, when your team is driving with no timeouts and time running out, and the referees are slow walking the ball between whistles you are okay with that?

Honestly, I think that people see the HUNH as a disadvantage for their team and want a rule in place that they think "levels the playing field" in their minds ans since their team does not run the HUNH they are okay with taking it away.

Coach Bryant learned and installed the wishbone after being trounced by it.

Allowing for 10 seconds of game clock to be lost between every play is bad for all teams involved and the game as a whole.

[Chechem]

So, when your team is driving with no timeouts and time running out, and the referees are slow walking the ball between whistles you are okay with that?

Honestly, I think that people see the HUNH as a disadvantage for their team and want a rule in place that they think "levels the playing field" in their minds ans since their team does not run the HUNH they are okay with taking it away.

Coach Bryant learned and installed the wishbone after being trounced by it.

Allowing for 10 seconds of game clock to be lost between every play is bad for all teams involved and the game as a whole.

I can see both sides.

One thing that I haven't heard:
Teams used to rush out for a quick punt (to gain an advantage) before the defense could field the appropriate team.

That went away...

[Jamos]

There really isn't a rule needed as the argument goes to slow down the HUNH teams,  they just need to take out the no substitution rule for the defense and the officials be required to put in ball in play after a team has made their substitutions. If there are no substitutions, then put the ball in play.

[bamaphil]

College football is cyclical.  Someone develops a new or different offensive scheme and has some success.  Everyone else seeks to emulate it.  A good defensive coach figures out how to stop it. Everyone emulates the defensive plan.  Someone develops a new or different offensive scheme and has some success....

The HUNH will be out of fashion in a few years.

[SUPERCOACH]

After thinking about this for several days, I don't like this rule.  I do like the idea of giving the defense a chance to substitute.  I think both sides should have the ability to substitute equally.  However I don't see telling the officials to waste 10 seconds after EVERY play.  What if the defense WANTS them to go fast?  Maybe they are behind and they want the ball back, and the offense is willing to go fast just because that is their standard operating procedure.

I think they need to come up with a different rule to give the defense the opportunity to substitute as needed.  Maybe the defense can send in substitutes immediately when the play is dead, and as long as they are coming on to the field before the ball is spotted for the next play the refs just stand over the ball until the switch is made.  Or maybe you only allow them to do that on a 1st down while the chains are being moved since there is already a slight delay.  I think they can come up with a better way to address this than an artificial 10 second delay.  JMHO.

[pmull]

After thinking about this for several days, I don't like this rule.  I do like the idea of giving the defense a chance to substitute.  I think both sides should have the ability to substitute equally.  However I don't see telling the officials to waste 10 seconds after EVERY play.  What if the defense WANTS them to go fast?  Maybe they are behind and they want the ball back, and the offense is willing to go fast just because that is their standard operating procedure.

I think they need to come up with a different rule to give the defense the opportunity to substitute as needed.  Maybe the defense can send in substitutes immediately when the play is dead, and as long as they are coming on to the field before the ball is spotted for the next play the refs just stand over the ball until the switch is made.  Or maybe you only allow them to do that on a 1st down while the chains are being moved since there is already a slight delay.  I think they can come up with a better way to address this than an artificial 10 second delay.  JMHO.

I agree. A change needs to be made but I do not like the 10 sec rule.

When the offense subs the defense has 3 seconds to sub or the official will put the ball in play. That rule should apply whether the offense subs or not.

[ricky023]

Well brethren, I have been reading up on all of your responses and I have to tell you that I am pretty confused right now. I see the 10 sec. rule but how could it affect either team. Man I am dumb as a rock. I thought the NCAA was going to do something that protects players safety. I may be missing something but I don't see any safety here it only talks about time. Ya'll keep posting and I'll keep reading and maybe someday a light will come on. RTR!

[Jamos]

After thinking about this for several days, I don't like this rule.  I do like the idea of giving the defense a chance to substitute.  I think both sides should have the ability to substitute equally.  However I don't see telling the officials to waste 10 seconds after EVERY play.  What if the defense WANTS them to go fast?  Maybe they are behind and they want the ball back, and the offense is willing to go fast just because that is their standard operating procedure.

I think they need to come up with a different rule to give the defense the opportunity to substitute as needed.  Maybe the defense can send in substitutes immediately when the play is dead, and as long as they are coming on to the field before the ball is spotted for the next play the refs just stand over the ball until the switch is made.  Or maybe you only allow them to do that on a 1st down while the chains are being moved since there is already a slight delay.  I think they can come up with a better way to address this than an artificial 10 second delay.  JMHO.

^^^THIS^^^
This is exactly what they need to do, no big deal involving anything other than the ref putting the ball in play. As far as the safety of the players, the substitutions being allowed is what will take care of that issue. CNS is only asking to be able to substitute whenever he feels it is necessary for his players. Some folks are making a big mountain out of a mole hill with this issue.

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