More Storms Looming for Penn State

[pmull]

I posted on another PSU thread:

Interesting article that gets into the edges of an area of concern I have had for some time.  I believe the cast of characters that had long standing knowledge of Sandusky's lust for boys goes far deeper than 4 administrators. Members of the press for one, with close ties to the football program undoubtedly heard rumors or saw things that should have raised direct investigating. Team members over the years have seen suspicious activity but failed to bring it to someone of authority. Neighbors of Sandusky, the Second Mile Folks, parents of kids that were friends with victims... I'll bet this runs deep into Happy Valley and there are not enough fingers pointing blame.

To state this in simple terms, the football program has been sanctioned enough. But if they want to really clean house, get ALL the INDIVIDUALS that were probably telling Sandusky jokes 5 or 10 years ago. I guarantee more people knew than just the inner circle of the Athletic Department. Get them all and drag them before a judge. This will do more to right a wrong then punishing the fans and players (current) that had nothing to do with this.

Have I missed something? What sanctions have the football program received?

 

I've been laughing at you and another guy trying to drag the NCAA into this all along, while it is clearly a criminal/civil matter. Piling on a little? What NCAA rules were violated and what NCAA sanctions would be worse than jail sentences, your legendary coach being put to sleep, and your program being the laughing stock of the entire country?

A jail sentence is not an NCAA sanction, in case you don't know that. Let's see, the footballcoach knew about child rape and did not report it, some of the child rapes occurred in the footballcomplex, the guy doing the child rapes was a current and former footballcoach, the Athletic Directorand university President covered up for the sake of the footballcoach and program. Gosh, I just don't see how football is involved in any way. And they definitely had institutional control over the footballprogram, didn't they? Yeah, we should be more humane to the child rapist and those who covered for him and not pile on, right? By the way, you still have not told me what NCAA sanctions they had suffered. You brought up the subject, not me.



 

I may have misspoke by using the term sanction (and you know this, MD) but the rest of the paragraph clears it up.  My point, --the one made by my ENTIRE post clearly indicates I feel the need to punish those responsible and those with knowledge of the crimes that didn't come forward should be paramount, and punishing the ones that didn't have anything to do with it should be secondary. Don't try to slide me into the child rapist coddling crowd. I've made 40 posts (or so) on the subject and not one indicates anything short of crucifying anyone that would harm a child. 

BAMAWV is being stubborn. 

[Marshal Dillon]

I posted on another PSU thread:

Interesting article that gets into the edges of an area of concern I have had for some time.  I believe the cast of characters that had long standing knowledge of Sandusky's lust for boys goes far deeper than 4 administrators. Members of the press for one, with close ties to the football program undoubtedly heard rumors or saw things that should have raised direct investigating. Team members over the years have seen suspicious activity but failed to bring it to someone of authority. Neighbors of Sandusky, the Second Mile Folks, parents of kids that were friends with victims... I'll bet this runs deep into Happy Valley and there are not enough fingers pointing blame.

To state this in simple terms, the football program has been sanctioned enough. But if they want to really clean house, get ALL the INDIVIDUALS that were probably telling Sandusky jokes 5 or 10 years ago. I guarantee more people knew than just the inner circle of the Athletic Department. Get them all and drag them before a judge. This will do more to right a wrong then punishing the fans and players (current) that had nothing to do with this.

Have I missed something? What sanctions have the football program received?

 

I've been laughing at you and another guy trying to drag the NCAA into this all along, while it is clearly a criminal/civil matter. Piling on a little? What NCAA rules were violated and what NCAA sanctions would be worse than jail sentences, your legendary coach being put to sleep, and your program being the laughing stock of the entire country?

A jail sentence is not an NCAA sanction, in case you don't know that. Let's see, the footballcoach knew about child rape and did not report it, some of the child rapes occurred in the footballcomplex, the guy doing the child rapes was a current and former footballcoach, the Athletic Directorand university President covered up for the sake of the footballcoach and program. Gosh, I just don't see how football is involved in any way. And they definitely had institutional control over the footballprogram, didn't they? Yeah, we should be more humane to the child rapist and those who covered for him and not pile on, right? By the way, you still have not told me what NCAA sanctions they had suffered. You brought up the subject, not me.



 

I may have misspoke by using the term sanction (and you know this, MD) but the rest of the paragraph clears it up.  My point, --the one made by my ENTIRE post clearly indicates I feel the need to punish those responsible and those with knowledge of the crimes that didn't come forward should be paramount, and punishing the ones that didn't have anything to do with it should be secondary. Don't try to slide me into the child rapist coddling crowd. I've made 40 posts (or so) on the subject and not one indicates anything short of crucifying anyone that would harm a child. 

No way am I implying you are a coddler or enabler of these evil men. My point and the point others are trying to make is this. The football program is the main reason the rapes were allowed to go on, the HC enabled and concealed these crimes to protect his legacy and to keep his job. Paterno was around 70 at the time and the program was not at the same high level of performance as years earlier. The AD and President were involved in this conspiracy. If that's not a loss of institutional control, I don't know what is. This is what the NCAA harps on, not letting an athletic program run a university, but instead the university runs the program. This is not the chemistry department we are talking about, but the football program. I think the NCAA will have to get involved due to the public and media uproar. The football program MUST be punished, since it was the impetus for the cover-up & continuing crime. I have suggested on other threads:


forfeiting of games (at least 2 years worth, maybe 5) to deny Paterno the win record
at least 2 year bowl ban
no tv revenue for any games for 2 years (money goes to charity for children)
Paterno statue must come down
remove Paterno name from all buildings/streets
lose 21 scholarships, maybe more

I would like to know your opinion of the above. Thanks.


 

[XBAMA]

this morning driving back from fishing I was listing to Yahoo Sports radio
the guy on the show , Dave somebody , was talking about the case
he said that in a case like this the victim count is not just eight victims
because the average victim count on a case like this is 150 victims , over
the span of when the sicko starts, up until like Jerry did , gets caught .

 
 

[Jamos]

I have no remorse for PSU and their staff of leaders that turned their heads to this terrible crime. I am really shaken by the number of people that have chosen to support the school and their football program. This was child rape, not the usual sports related crimes such as DUI, drugs, and sometimes gun related incidents.

These crimes happened within the confines of the athletic department and the criminal was protected by not only the head football coach but by the heads of the university as well. How lowdown and rotten can some people become, all for the love of a football program. Child rape, this has to be the bottom of the barrel as far as hideous crimes are concerned, but yet these fans and supporters of PSU are adamantly screaming bloody murder at the thought of what might happen to their wonderful PSU football program.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all of the victims and their families and personally I hope that all of the people that are involved with this coverup get the maximum penalty allowed by the Pennsylvania law. To give the PSU football team the death penalty, would only be the icing on the cake, very gratifying.

[pmull]

I think the handling of this case by the university administration and BOT is discussing. I think they need to get hit with the following:

1. First and most important is to criminally charge any and all administration that had knowledge of Sandusky's child molestation and cover it up and failed to report it to the proper authority as required by law. I think they should be punished to the maximum extent of the law.
2. I think the NCAA should charge the foot program with "Lack of Intitutional Control". The football program and Paterno were running that University. University rules did not apply to the football program. They need to be severely punished. They need to vacate wins for the last 2-5 years. They need a 2 year bowl ban. They need 10 scholarships removed for 3 years. They need to knock this football program down a few pegs.
3. If the administration and BOT don't take immediate action to make changes they need their accreditation pulled. The BOT needs to be screaming at the top of their lungs telling the entire nation how sorry they are this has happened and what procedures they are putting in place to make sure it never happens again. They need to show remorse. They need to start cleaning house and bring in new administration from outside Penn St to start things from scratch. No hiring of the "good ole local boys". If they made major changes and show good faith they need to be put on probation. Losing their accreditation will ruin the university. I think that is going too far if they show they are trying to do the right thing.

[hscoach]

I think the handling of this case by the university administration and BOT is discussing. I think they need to get hit with the following:

1. First and most important is to criminally charge any and all administration that had knowledge of Sandusky's child molestation and cover it up and failed to report it to the proper authority as required by law. I think they should be punished to the maximum extent of the law.
2. I think the NCAA should charge the foot program with "Lack of Intitutional Control". The football program and Paterno were running that University. University rules did not apply to the football program. They need to be severely punished. They need to vacate wins for the last 2-5 years. They need a 2 year bowl ban. They need 10 scholarships removed for 3 years. They need to knock this football program down a few pegs.
3. If the administration and BOT don't take immediate action to make changes they need their accreditation pulled. The BOT needs to be screaming at the top of their lungs telling the entire nation how sorry they are this has happened and what procedures they are putting in place to make sure it never happens again. They need to show remorse. They need to start cleaning house and bring in new administration from outside Penn St to start things from scratch. No hiring of the "good ole local boys". If they made major changes and show good faith they need to be put on probation. Losing their accreditation will ruin the university. I think that is going too far if they show they are trying to do the right thing.

I agree with you.  I was listening to ESPN radio yesterday and they were talking about how this wasn't an NCAA violation.  I was thinking like you, "Lack of  Institutional Control", where does it state that it only relates to athletes?  Also, I would hate for people to know, if I was a booster, that I was supporting these people.

[ALTideUp]

It is also true that lack of institutional control is not only about explaining what has happened in the past, but the assumption that the lack of institutional control will surely lead to problems in the future if not corrected.

[Marshal Dillon]

It is also true that lack of institutional control is not only about explaining what has happened in the past, but the assumption that the lack of institutional control will surely lead to problems in the future if not corrected.

EXACTLY!! Great point and I had forgot all about that. Yes, the NCAA wants to make sure this does not happen again, where the football HC is running the university.

[BAMAWV]

Over the year or two of knowing MD, I feel he would have done the right thing and tried to put a stop to these hideous crimes. I would like to think I would do the same, but in self analylsis, if there was somehow a BUNCH of money to be lost by interceding, I sadly may not have acted. There are several others on this board I feel have the courage to stand up for what is right. But the truth is that 8 or 9 out of 10 people will do anything to avoid conflict. To walk into a shower area and throw a naked football coach against a wall, take a naked tween to get dressed, and then drive him to the police station is too much for the average joe coward to handle. Be honest, ask yourself, and then see how much you want to continue flogging a wounded horse.

[Marshal Dillon]

Over the year or two of knowing MD, I feel he would have done the right thing and tried to put a stop to these hideous crimes. I would like to think I would do the same, but in self analylsis, if there was somehow a BUNCH of money to be lost by interceding, I sadly may not have acted. There are several others on this board I feel have the courage to stand up for what is right. But the truth is that 8 or 9 out of 10 people will do anything to avoid conflict. To walk into a shower area and throw a naked football coach against a wall, take a naked tween to get dressed, and then drive him to the police station is too much for the average joe coward to handle. Be honest, ask yourself, and then see how much you want to continue flogging a wounded horse.

I think there is a lot of truth in what you say. One point a lot of folks is missing is Paterno was not the only one who was idolized, so was Sandusky. Sandusky was Paterno's right hand man and to confront such a lionized person would have been hard for most folks. That's where common sense and right and wrong have to kick in, like an automatic response, and say child rape is evil and must be stopped and da#@ the consequences. The truth is, if someone had come forward, they would have been seen as a hero for stopping such evil. By the way, what sanctions, if any do you think the NCAA should hand Penn State. Just wondering. Plus, read the post about what the NCAA said about Penn State.

 

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