Crimson Red Sports

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Well, IF he enrolls in Jan. he will either get his act together real fast or he'll be gone by the end of summer (if not sooner.)

A bit surprising to me.

One thing about such issues; always 2 sides to a story (or more).  I'll bet our coaches have heard both by now.

Just remember the "concerns" that everyone had when we heard that Coach Saban had hired Coach Kiffin...That turned out alright so far IMO.  I trust Coach Saban with this as well and if this kid wants to act in T-town like he did at UGA he won't be here very long anyways...

Some strings attached for Taylor...

https://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1722911

Was Kiffin convicted of any crimes or choke out a woman? Just wondering.

Are we that desperate for talent?

Are we turning into the Barn?

I have no idea.  However, I do trust that Coach Saban and his staff have fully done their due diligence to make sure he is the kind of person that can and will do what is expected of him as a student athlete for Alabama...

You have no idea if Kiffin has choked out a woman like Taylor and has other crimes on his resume'? Really? Wow!

I wasn't available to review Kiffin's resume last year.  Sorry about that.   :eyeroll: 

Why not trust Coach Saban in all of his decisions?  Not every player he recruits will be 5-star, All-American's with shining resumes as we have seen in recent years.  Weren't there four players that he kicked off the team a couple of years back?  Guess what?  One of those is back on the team.  There is a reason for that and I feel there is a good reason that Saban decided to recruit this kid.  I have no problems with it at this point.

So NEVER question anything Saban decides? I wish I could be so perfect. So if Taylor chokes out/slaps a female around at Alabama, then you might have a problem with his signing. Okay.

I'm really torn on this one.

Beating a woman, especially a man his size, is a despicable act.  I don't like the idea of letting a guy who would do so on the team.  One of the things, the many things, I appreciate about Saban is that he hasn't let bad character guys bring down the team or the university's reputation no matter how talented they are.

On the other hand, I hope the coaching staff is able to help the young man.  If no one is willing to help him now he likely will have a troubled life.  I know Saban won't tolerate any garbage from him, and I doubt there are many staffs in the country better able to help him develop not just as a player but as a man.  

I'm with you, phil.  Seems we have reached the 'win at all costs' level.

Sigh.    ???

I'm with NALT.  I give CNS the benefit of the doubt.  I am also quite confident that the kid will have to behave himself or he will be gone.  I don't like it at all from what I know about the situation, but I trust CNS's judgement.  To be honest, I don't care if the kid ever plays a down for Alabama, but maybe he can turn his life around with the proper father figure in his life.  Just look at Ro.

You should try a little harder.  HTH.

:lol2:

Nailed it.

Look,  I don't get paid to do what Coach Saban and staff do.  It is their job to analyse tallent and character and make the decisions that are 1. best for the Alabama team and university and 2. what is best for that individual.  What if CNS and staff can mentor and teach this young man how to properly present himself to everyone, women especially?  I think it would be worth the "risk" that you seem so hung up on if they can be successful in that.  At some point, someone needs to step up and try to help young men like this and I don't see why it shouldn't be Bama's staff.  Is there a guarantee that he will develop into a respectable man that a woman could feel love and respect for and feel safe with?  No, of course not.  Neither is there a guarantee that any of us will raise a son with the characteristics we would hope for.

Most people don't see the side of Saban that we as fans, know is just as important as football to him; developing character with these kids. Maybe CNS sees this as a challenge or maybe it's a cry for help from this young man that he just can't ignore.

Whatever the reason, this kid being on the team will keep him busy, and I'm sure his time away from football and the classroom will be filled with duties he's been assigned, as tasks that CNS has asked for, to enable him to stay on the team. I think Pettway went through this same ritual.

It bothers me, as well, to think that maybe we've taken on a thug, but I'm willing to give Coach Saban the benefit of the doubt. I just hope this decision doesn't come back to bite him, or worse, another young lady.

Well said, 2.

I'm trying to balance the negative information (albeit limited) about Mr. Taylor with the knowledge that Coach Saban expects nothing short of excellence.  Certainly this looks like a win-at-all-costs recruitment. 

It's become so common for players in trouble with the law to transfer that the stigma once associated with it is fading.  Just a couple of years ago, only Louisville, the Aubs, and a few others would accept such players.  Now it seems that it's the norm.  Maybe we recruited him to keep him away from Auburn!

I'm tiring of these kids being thrown out of one school, only to enroll at another.  Oops, not 'thrown out'.  The schools don't have the balls to do that usually.  They simply agree to drop the charges if the player leaves.  Reference Jesse Matthew, who was recently arrested for kidnapping, rape, and murder in Virginia.  He previously left football programs at 2 schools after accusations of rape (Liberty University and Christopher Newport College), agreed to leave if not charged, then took his rampage to the streets.  At least he's finally in jail after 3 more attacks and 2 murders.

 :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

You know, if Auburn had signed this thug you guys would be screaming to high heaven and making fun of them and looking your noses down at them. However, since Saban is doing it you praise him and give him the benefit of the doubt. Okay, which one is it, it's okay to sign women beaters to try and rehabilitate them or it's not okay and our program should stand for something higher. You can't have it both ways.

It's because we know the Aubs and we know Saban. Different as night and day. Saban sees something in this kid that is redeemable. Aubs don't care, as long as he can play football.

This!  #+

Come on 2, that's a cop-out and you know it. You don't know what type of person Malzahn is and where his heart is at. I guarantee you folks are saying the same bad things about Saban after reading about Taylor, a win-at-all-costs type of guy who is coddling a woman beater. And since when has Alabama football become a rehabilitation facility for women beaters? I am shocked to see such good posters as yourself making excuses for Saban in this matter. I guess having a daughter and 2 granddaughters is clouding my judgement in not being accepting of a woman beater.


 

I think conclusions are prolly a little weary of you jumping to them. I know Auburn, regardless of Malzahn.
 
Also, reading comprehension needs to be your friend. I've made no excuses for Saban. Big difference between that and giving someone the benefit of the doubt. I've also stated my skepticism about the situation so...........

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/27/27dd39065116dd636291836c3b557377bd42c8e34d83bce986e9ff4fe0e604f0.jpg)

:popcorn2:

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/eating/corn-on-the-cob-smiley-emoticon.gif)

Really?  So having a daughter and 2 granddaughters makes you the all-knowing authority on what is best for Bama football?   :eyeroll:  I truly hate it for Taylor's past victims that he did what he did.  That doesn't mean he is still the same person to me.  He may or may not have changed for all I know.  Since I don't know anything more than what has been in the papers about this guy and I really believe Saban does know more than I, I am willing to defer that decision to him.  I guess the fact that I adopted 5 girls our of homes where they suffered at the hands of neglect and abuse is clouding my judgement though.  Again,  :eyeroll:  Let the man do his job as he sees fit and you and I can continue to do our jobs as we see fit...

I'm talking about principles and where you stand. Either you stand for something or you stand for nothing. There are no excuses or reason for Saban to accept a woman beater at Alabama. Giving the benefit of the doubt on what, whether the woman beater is really a nice guy and will suddenly change? I just don't get it, especially from folks who would be jumping all over any other program that signed this guy. Like I said, either it's acceptable or it's not, there is no in-between in a situation like this to me.


 ???

So, you've made your point that you do not ever believe in gray areas. It's all black or white. Great, if that's your thing. Most of us are not like that, however, and like NALT, I have daughters, too. I know more about domestic violence than probably anybody should ever know and I have doubts about Saban's decision. But I've also seen some of the worst scumbags on earth, turn their lives around to do great things.

I'm hoping that will be the case here.

Where did I state that? I said in this situation, a women beater being signed to play for Bama. You're lashing out at me because you KNOW I'm right. Where do you draw the line? I feel like I'm on an FSU board being attacked for criticizing Winston. Amazing & sad. 2, I've always thought of you as a fine fella and I still do, but you are just flat wrong on this matter. I actually hope this works out for Taylor, but I have huge doubts about it.

You guys are all great Bama fans but puhleeze... let's take a breath.

IMHO, this guy's situation is about 100% in a grey area, which is why we have such different opinions.  It will take some time to know [1] if his legal problems can be cleared up and [2] what kind of player/teammate/person he will be.  Only then will we know if this was a good move, and how good.

Meanwhile -- and this is the part I really don't like -- we are going to take heat in the press and the image of the program has been permanently dented.  I just hope this is not the beginning of a trend.

MD, I thought you knew me well enough to know I don't attack. I was tongue-in-cheeking my comments toward you. You know better, but in the case of their being no gray areas in your perceptions, that wasn't an attack, that was an observation. You try to overpower your opinion sometimes, which makes me feel that you see only black and white. One might say "narrow minded".

Even in a disagreement, imma gonna have fun. I don't take too many things seriously, certainly not what is said on a football forum. No attack, just disagree. Carry on!

As I read all of the posts by everyone I could see some of me in everyone of them. I usually have a biased opinion in most instances like this one as all of you have and I will admit that I have been wrong so many times because I didn't know the whole story of the situation.

The first thing that I noticed in the posts was that CNS is the one that is being blamed for letting Taylor play football at Alabama, well that isn't so. Taylor was first approved by the University of Alabama to enroll and then Bill Battle gave the approval for him to play football. This all happened because of his criminal status as is with any student that wants to enroll at the U of A, they must first be approved before they can enroll. He hasn't played a down for Bama yet and I can assure you he won't play a down for CNS until he meets a certain criteria, which isn't very easy to do.

The question of is he worthy of having a chance to play at Bama is something that a lot of us have strong opinions on. There are a lot of very successful people in this world because someone gave them a second or even a third chance or even more. Did they deserve those chances? Maybe not in a lot of peoples minds but wasn't it good to see that it happened, something good came from something bad. There is one particular former player at Alabama that got extra chances in life for something very similar to wha Jonathont Taylor has been accused of. Do any of you remember Siran Stacy? Sure you do and everybody loves him for what he did on the football field as well as how his horrible story of his wife and children being killed in the car accident and how he has survived all of that. Siran was like some of the players for CNS, he was a constant visitor to the Gene Stalling's doghouse for not doing the right things in life. I remember when his life started to change some as he was made to do community service work for his wrong doings by working at the RISE Center by helping with the children there. He resisted at first and insisted he had better things to do but the kids there finally won him over by adoring him. What they loved most about him was Siran letting them sit in his lap in a rocking chair and he would rock and sing them to sleep. Every one at Rise would peek around the corners just to hear his wonderful voice as he would put the kids to sleep.  This was not the Siran Stacy of old, it was something good coming from a bad situation in his life. After he left Bama for the Philadelphia Eagles, his life reversed itself back to his old days of not doing the right things in life. Yes, he was arrested for assaulting his girlfriend, the same thing that Jonathan Taylor was arrested for. Now we all know the rest of the story of Siran Stacy, is it so wrong that he got extra chances in life to be a better person.

So as we voice our opinions, let's ask ourselves is it worth the effort to try and change another person's life to make something good out of something very bad. If there is any person that I know that can change this young man, it would be Nick Saban. If he can become a better person and become successful in life, it was  well worth the effort of those that cared. Nick Saban is something way more than a football coach, he is a life changer for many young men that straddle the road of being good or bad in life.

I'll never ever let my feelings for helping someone be affected by what someone else may think of me, that would only make me a lesser man.JMHO
 

 

I didn't mean to infer I was being attacked by posters on this forum & apologize if any took it that way. Way too many good folks here, I was referring to the FSU fans who were attacking everyone & everything over the multi Winston fiascos. Having strong opinions or beliefs about certain issues don't make you narrow-minded. There are no "gray" areas when it comes to sexual abuse of women or children, assaulting women, stealing the life savings of people, especially old folks, etc. Those are my beliefs, period. Let's be honest, how many folks would be concerned about this kid if he did not play football and was a 4* recruit. Just wondering out loud. Finally, 2 you and many other posters are truly good people & certain issues really hit my button. I have seen & dealt with so much garbage in my profession it's hard to be sympathetic or empathetic to folks who hurt other folks, especially the weak ones. Don't get gun shy towards me & stop posting, there is a lot of fun on this forum.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I think at 1st most of us on this forum 2nd guessed what was going on. But , after a lot of soul searching you put into words what conclusion we all came to! Great post Jamos! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Why would I stop posting? I thought that was a good exchange between us. (Which I won)  :lol2:

Well I saw a lot of good debates here and some well used wording formula's. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents to the end of it all. Shoot I love you all and thanks for the fun reading. God Bless. RTR!

Good read!
 :popcorn2:

Good post Jamos.

Courtney Upshaw in recent years had a similar problem under CNS watch and that turned out OK. I also remember the way Coach Stallings handled David Palmer after multiple DUI arrests. That turned out well too. Pettway got a second chance and he seems to be making the most of it. He recently graduated which is an achievement in anyone's life.

I have not posted in this thread because I did not know what to say. I think there are different circumstances in each case like this. I do not know the facts. On the surface it looks bad but there is always another side of the story. I just hope it turns out well for anyone.

I am guilty of making negative comments when other schools do what we just did especially if it is the school down the road in West Georgia know as a cow college. I will probably continue to do that. Likewise, we are being talked about negatively by other schools right now. It is all part of the rivalry. At the end of the day I am in favor of helping young men that want to be helped regardless if it is my school or not.     

Most of you guys are probably not old enough to remember the problems Coach Bryant had with Joe Namath.

I was just a young toddler back then but I've "heard" about that from some of you the older folks...  ;)

Refresh our memories. Was Joe Namath's problems team rules or did he break the law? I always thought it was team rules which is not the same IMO. But I get your point.  

Was he arrested twice and beat a woman? Just wondering.

I seem to recollect that Joe's major issues were with drunk and disorderly and fighting.  That was a different era where there was no social media and no 24/7 news coverage of athletes.  During the 4 years I was on campus, I never heard of domestic assault or sexual battery.  Not saying they never happened, just saying I never heard of it.

MD, to answer your 2 questions, "yes" and "unknown".

Nothing I have posted should be construed to indicate that I take domestic violence lightly.  Not the case, I think those guilty of it should be punished for sure and rehabilitated if possible. Do I believe in second chances? Depends on the circumstances.  Sometimes...maybe...maybe not.  I think punishment for an offender is a black and white issue,  rehabilitation and second chances is a gray area and requires judgement and discernment.

Very well stated Lee.   #+

Just thought I would bring this thread back.





 :-X

I kinda figured you would dig this one out of the vault.  Looks like you nailed it early.

I feel bad for the girl, and for JT and his family.  He has taken a major step backwards.  I hope he finds some help before something worse happens.

We all lost in this outcome.

 :deadhorse:

I stand by what I said on page 2. I wasn't entirely comfortable with the decision when it was made, but I hoped the young man would turn his life around.

Sadly, I don't see that happening. He's forfeited the privilege of being a university student and football player. I do hope someone is able to help before he kills someone.

As said above, 'I'm with you, phil.'

You nailed it, it's about the abused woman. Taylor has deep, serious problems that can't be fixed by playing football.

Bingo!!! Your first statement on this situation nailed it from the start. 

OK, so I was right.  Give me a brownie point.  Put a star by my name.   :stars:


 :deadhorse:

You lost me. I don't get it.


 :stars: :stars: :stars:

 I could never blame anyone for taking the time and effort to help someone that is struggling to make the right choices and decisions with their life. I happen to know a couple of folks that I can't thank enough for a couple of decisions that they made many years ago, second chance decisions. ;)

I am fully behind Coach and his defense of second chances as an alternative to letting someone's life go into the dumps because they made one mistake. that argument is as compelling today as it was when he said those things. But there have to be consequences for each new "bad act", and Taylor's consequence must be removal from the team if the charges prove not to be spurious. Coach must do this if he hopes that the next guy to whom he gives a second chance will cherish and make the most of that opportunity.

I'm watching the UGA vs. UT softball game and they are scrolling across the bottom of the screen that Taylor has been dismissed from Alabama's team.