Closer look at the Ole Miss Pop pass

[crimson13]

All this attention has been given to the Ole Miss"pop pass" and most people have not even looked at the play very closely. The deception by Ole Miss was not the problem.  The CB on the play released the receiver when the quarterback was about 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage, and when the offensive linemen were approximately 3 yards down field.  The safety had already given up on the pass at this same point, leaving the receiver wide open  So the CB was beaten by the receiver, and ignored by the safety, before the deception by the linemen and the quarterback.  The receiver ran an out and down pattern, and did not appear to be faking a block on the DB.  It is true that the linemen were about 5 yards down field when the pass was thrown, and the ref should have flagged Ole Miss for linemen downfield.  But, the cause of the problem was that the DB and the safety made the wrong decision on defending the run too early.

The problem for Bama started when our left DE lost containment on the QB.  He was not blocked, and lost containment by taking a small step on the fake to the RB, allowing the QB to get outside and having his choice of picking up the first down, or throwing later, when the receiver was well behind our DB's.

This is not to bash anyone for their play, just saying that most people are focusing on the wrong reason for giving up that critical TD.

Go back and watch the video of the play, and freeze-frame it and you will see when the wrong decision was made.

[Jamos]

All this attention has been given to the Ole Miss"pop pass" and most people have not even looked at the play very closely. The deception by Ole Miss was not the problem.  The CB on the play released the receiver when the quarterback was about 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage, and when the offensive linemen were approximately 3 yards down field.  The safety had already given up on the pass at this same point, leaving the receiver wide open  So the CB was beaten by the receiver, and ignored by the safety, before the deception by the linemen and the quarterback.  The receiver ran an out and down pattern, and did not appear to be faking a block on the DB.  It is true that the linemen were about 5 yards down field when the pass was thrown, and the ref should have flagged Ole Miss for linemen downfield.  But, the cause of the problem was that the DB and the safety made the wrong decision on defending the run too early.

The problem for Bama started when our left DE lost containment on the QB.  He was not blocked, and lost containment by taking a small step on the fake to the RB, allowing the QB to get outside and having his choice of picking up the first down, or throwing later, when the receiver was well behind our DB's.

This is not to bash anyone for their play, just saying that most people are focusing on the wrong reason for giving up that critical TD.

Go back and watch the video of the play, and freeze-frame it and you will see when the wrong decision was made.

Then what else happened on the play is a mute point, a flag should have been thrown and Ole Miss penalized. 

[hscoach]

The deception could be part of the problem if the safety is reading the uncovered lineman and he is giving a run key.  I don't know how Bama teaches it but we use to teach our safeties to come downhill for the run if you get a run key from the uncovered lineman.  That being said if Bama had not lost contain and the safety overlaps the outside rec then Bama could have stopped the play. 

[crimson13]

It is not a moot point.  The refs missed it, they should have called it, we can't get that back.  My point is, we have some things to work on, and the results of the play would have been the same even if the linemen had stopped advancing at 3 yds downfield.

[crimson13]

The deception could be part of the problem if the safety is reading the uncovered lineman and he is giving a run key.  I don't know how Bama teaches it but we use to teach our safeties to come downhill for the run if you get a run key from the uncovered lineman.  That being said if Bama had not lost contain and the safety overlaps the outside rec then Bama could have stopped the play.  

I agree, but  if you freeze the frames, you will see that they read "run" before the linemen had advanced past 3 yds downfield.  The CB probably should have taken the run, with the safety sliding over to take the receiver.  I don't know which way Bama teaches it, but I sure wish we would figure it out soon.

[hscoach]

The deception could be part of the problem if the safety is reading the uncovered lineman and he is giving a run key.  I don't know how Bama teaches it but we use to teach our safeties to come downhill for the run if you get a run key from the uncovered lineman.  That being said if Bama had not lost contain and the safety overlaps the outside rec then Bama could have stopped the play. 

I agree, but  if you freeze the frames, you will see that they read "run" before the linemen had advanced past 3 yds downfield.

Question, is the lineman uncovered?  If so, releasing up the field gives the safety a run read key.  If he is giving a pass key he usually doesn't go up field.  Another reason this is a problem because team are exploiting it and getting away with  it.  The real problem here was the 5 turnovers.  Bama could have survived this play if not for the 5 turnovers 4 of which led to points.

[crimson13]

 
[/quote]

Question, is the lineman uncovered?  If so, releasing up the field gives the safety a run read key.  If he is giving a pass key he usually doesn't go up field.  Another reason this is a problem because team are exploiting it and getting away with  it.  The real problem here was the 5 turnovers.  Bama could have survived this play if not for the 5 turnovers 4 of which led to points.
[/quote]

Oh, no argument there, but i was only reveiwing 1 play.  Bama has to learn to deal with the linemen giving "run" keys on these plays.  Looks like the refs are not prepared to call it on a consistent basis.  We need to learn to defend it, and we should run that type play a couple of times a game.  If it is so hard to defend, we can put the shoe on the other foot.

[ricky023]

Should CNS not ask the Ref's this question before the game begins to relay the info to the players? RTR!

[SUPERCOACH]

Excellent discussion.  I suspected that the safety was supposed to come over and pick up the receiver but he was no where to be found.  When the QB rolls to your side the corner usually stays in the flat and releases the receiver to the safety.  This assumes zone coverage of course, and I honestly don't remember what the coverage was.  It looked like the corner was playing zone any way.

Now the question is, why was the safety not over there?  Did he see the uncovered lineman coming downfield, although not 3 yards deep yet, and come up to play the run?  Even if the uncovered lineman is coming downfield, that is not illegal so long as he stops at 3 yards.  So the safety has to be aware that teams will do that as a false key/decoy.

The point about the DE is also an excellent observation.  He definitely lost contain on that play.  If he keeps contain then the CB has no need to come up to the line so quickly.  So it really was a chain of events on the D that led to the break down.

I guarantee you we will see that play again and we need to do a better job of stopping it.  We can't count on the refs to throw a flag, especially since the lineman can stop at 3 yards and there is no penalty.

[Chechem]

Excellent discussion.  I suspected that the safety was supposed to come over and pick up the receiver but he was no where to be found.  When the QB rolls to your side the corner usually stays in the flat and releases the receiver to the safety.  This assumes zone coverage of course, and I honestly don't remember what the coverage was.  It looked like the corner was playing zone any way.

Now the question is, why was the safety not over there?  ...

One reason that play worked so well at that time of the game was the success Kelly had running the ball himself.  By then he'd already run for a TD, and run for substantial gains several times.  He was (again) outside containment, and the DBs assumed they'd have to make the play again.

Next time, tackle the refs!  

[crimson13]

Excellent discussion.  I suspected that the safety was supposed to come over and pick up the receiver but he was no where to be found.  When the QB rolls to your side the corner usually stays in the flat and releases the receiver to the safety.  This assumes zone coverage of course, and I honestly don't remember what the coverage was.  It looked like the corner was playing zone any way.

Now the question is, why was the safety not over there?  Did he see the uncovered lineman coming downfield, although not 3 yards deep yet, and come up to play the run?  Even if the uncovered lineman is coming downfield, that is not illegal so long as he stops at 3 yards.  So the safety has to be aware that teams will do that as a false key/decoy.

The point about the DE is also an excellent observation.  He definitely lost contain on that play.  If he keeps contain then the CB has no need to come up to the line so quickly.  So it really was a chain of events on the D that led to the break down.

I guarantee you we will see that play again and we need to do a better job of stopping it.  We can't count on the refs to throw a flag, especially since the lineman can stop at 3 yards and there is no penalty.

Thanks, SC.  We are in total agreement.

[hscoach]

I just watched the play again and everyone of the OL are giving a run key. No one is showing pass.  It looks like the safety is looking at the OL for a read, hard to tell.  Also, it may be the angle, but the player that lost contain looks as though he is toed in making it harder for him to maintain contain.

[crimson13]

I just watched the play again and everyone of the OL are giving a run key. No one is showing pass.  It looks like the safety is looking at the OL for a read, hard to tell.  Also, it may be the angle, but the player that lost contain looks as though he is toed in making it harder for him to maintain contain.

What is the rule on the linemen.  If all the linemen, covered and uncovered, give the run key, but stop at 3 yds downfield, is that a legal play or not.  I am not sure how it is written.

[hscoach]

I just watched the play again and everyone of the OL are giving a run key. No one is showing pass.  It looks like the safety is looking at the OL for a read, hard to tell.  Also, it may be the angle, but the player that lost contain looks as though he is toed in making it harder for him to maintain contain.

What is the rule on the linemen.  If all the linemen, covered and uncovered, give the run key, but stop at 3 yds downfield, is that a legal play or not.  I am not sure how it is written.

That would be legal.  The game has changed and the rules haven't changed with it.  It is just being taught now that there is a run pass option. I would just about bet there was a run play called and the OL had no clue the ball was thrown until after the fact.  This scheme really benefits the offense and puts the D in a terrible position.

[SUPERCOACH]

This is exact same play cost us a chance to play for the 3-peat in 2013.  I think we would have beaten FSU handily too.

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